Yesterday, a troll visited LA Dodger Talk to say all sorts of ridiculous things because I dared say something they didn’t like about Yasiel Puig.  Then a writer from the same site feels compelled to disagree with my take – which is certainly his prerogative.  I just find it curious that he disagrees with my take on Yasiel and feels compelled to say it while writing that the Dodgers should consider pre-MLB deals with Joc Pederson and Julio Urias.  Now that’s a piece of fiction!  He goes on to say that the Rays locked up Evan Longoria to a 6-year, $17.5 million deal AFTER logging just six games and 24 plate appearances in the majors in 2008, so the Dodgers should lock up Joc Pederson and Julio Urias BEFORE they get to the majors to contracts of 7 years /$20 million for Pederson and 7 years /$35 million for Urias.  It must be wonderful to be so blessed to be able to see the future.

Hello!  Remember a few years ago when Trayvon Robinson and Greg Miller were as highly regarded as Pederson and Urias?  How did that work out?  Now, I’m not saying that they won’t make it, but I would be willing to bet one of them won’t live up to their hype.  That’s the nature of the business.   I would have let it ride as his opinion, but since he feels so compelled to Poo Poo (pun intended) what I say, I thought I would point out the fallacy of his article.  Naive at the best, delusional at the worst!  Dustin used to be a pretty bright guy – maybe that’s what happens when you hang out with trolls.

For the record, I have said that Puig has more talent than any player I can remember.  In my mind, he is a combination of Roberto Clemente and Bo Jackson.  He is fun to watch and I have no problem with the way he plays the game… most of the time!  His energy is contagious, and he energized the Dodgers last year.  That said, in 40+ years of business experience, I have found that the most talented guys don’t usually pan out.  They flame out.  Puig shows that he’s capable of that to me.  I get that young guys with little life experience don’t want to even consider that…. which is why they are so outraged by what I say.  They just don’t know what they don’t know and I’m sure they will be compelled to spout off about it.  It would be too bad if I cared!

I hope I am wrong about Puig, but the handwriting is on the wall.  He can change.   He can turn it around… it’s not too late… and by all accounts he’s a good kid.  But if he keeps his reckless ways up he is going to end up in big trouble soon.  I hope I am wrong.  Don’t brand me a Puig Hater – I was born at night.  It just wasn’t last night like some of you.  You may have knowledge, but you are lacking in the experience department.

Now, let me praise another blogger. Andrew Grant of TrueBlueLA wrote a piece entitled Stop Stat Abuse, which was outstanding!  While it was directed at ESPN, it applies to most stat geeks who use statistics ad nauseam to prove anything – figures don’t lie, but liars figure!   He is right that stats don’t lie, but goes on to say something very profound:

However, translating those numbers into something that predicts human behavior is damn near impossible.

The article is a worthy read – he’s a smart guy.  I guess that’s what happens when you avoid trolls.

On another subject: Good news about Kemp.

Residential-Collage-m

  1. Bob says:

    Mark,

    I watched both games in Australia. I wrote on the Dodger website fan forum about Puig’s base running and how as a fan you love the guys talents, but how infuriating it is to needlessly run into outs and out of potential big innings. I have to think that in the clubhouse this is a huge issue. You constantly see Gonzales and Uribe talking to him, but nothing seems to click in. Imagine if Grienke was there? Imagine if he was asked to comment on Puig’s running? I fear that this stuff might divide the clubhouse. The Dodgers have to get Lopes and Bundy more involved with this kid. In that second game he ignored both of them. I know we walk a fine line here. You don’t want to inhibit that great physical talent, but something has to be done to right this kid before it negatively effects the whole team.

    By the way, some Dodger fans considered what I was saying as Puig hating an wondered why I would criticize him when the Dodgers won both games. Yikes!

  2. Idaho al says:

    I agree with Mark and Bob. You can see in the dugout that Puig is being talked to by other players. I think Puig’s demise could come off the field. It seems to me that he does not have many life experinces to help him stay grounded. A lot of talent that may go up in smoke. I hope I am wrong, and he changes his ways.

  3. Pete M. says:

    Let us never forget the year of Rhianna and the downfall (temp thank God)of the Bison…. I have a hunch that Puig’s status rests with the team now…If they give up, ballgame over… I shake my head when I see guys like A.J. Ellis who busted their arse to get to the bigs with very little of Puig’s God given talent…

  4. jhallwally says:

    Nice post Mark.. I too, am more than a little worried about Puig… I would send him back to the minors for a few months. He needs a huge reality check…. JMO

  5. Eric N. says:

    Good post Mark. I don’t comment but I always read your post and I agree with you about Puig. If his teammates don’t quit on him he has a chance to be something special. It just depends on how long his teammates will be able to put up with his immaturity. Personally, I would considering trading him if there is a market for him.

    The troll thing is pretty sad. I find it disturbing every time they crash your blog. Now there is some serious immaturity.

    Keep up the good work and keep stirring the pot!

  6. Badger says:

    Trolls only show up in places that are relevant. Not sure why Dustin showed up, other than to disagree with a fellow bloggers take. I have no problem with that. Obviously not everyone will have the same take on these issues.

    I give Puig at least until Kemp is back. And I don’t mean back as in back in the lineup, I mean as back doing what he is paid 20 milyun clams to do. If Puig still suffers from CID at that time – down he goes. In the mean time I think with the very next donkey play Donnie let’s him watch from the bench. We have enough outfielders to do that.

  7. grumpy3b says:

    Well, the Dodgers have the cash to hire Bo Jackson to be Puig’s “stable pony”….and I think Bo could still take Puig down if need be.

    All things being equal I suspect we all get it that Puig is trying to adopt to a vastly different culture with access to things he never dreamed possible. But I also know there are several of us who have been through some very bad times in life and learned to do one of two things, get used to it or get over it.

    I did get a chuckle reading that Puig already owns a Rolls. Of course he apparently already driving it even after promising to not drive at all this year. But, hey, none of us were every young dumb and full of, well you fill in the last bit.

    He won’t be traded this season unless it is for an overpay on the order of something like Price AND Stanton for Puig and Mattingly. With the issue over the lingering association with McCourt, people not getting it that it costs money to pay these guys and it has to come from somewhere so prices have to rise. But Puig is a feel-good thing and good for PR, until someone dies. I wonder if the Cuban National Team would be willing to work a trade for Puig?

  8. Dustin Nosler says:

    First, my disagreeing with your opinion has nothing to do with the article I wrote yesterday. Nothing whatsoever. I’m not even sure how you put those two together.

    Second, if you’re going to use my words, please have the decency to put said words in quotation marks, lest you get accused of plagiarizing. “… to a 6-year, $17.5 million deal after logging just six games and 24 plate appearances in the majors in 2008.”

    Third, if you’re going to — to use your words — “Poo Poo” my article, at least get the figures right. It was 7/35 for Pederson and 10/50 for Urias. I explained my reasoning in the article, on Twitter and in an episode of my podcast that comes out today. You’re more than within your right to disagree with it (many did), but your disagreement doesn’t seem to stem from the premise, as much as it is you — for lack of a better term — retaliating because I disagreed with your opinion.

    • RogerCraig says:

      Dustin,

      I have read your blog for years and I know that you probably have a degree in journalism, but it is extremely petty to accuse Mark of plagiarizing when he attributes the quote to you. Leaving out the quotation marks for a sentence fragment doesn’t even come close to that, but it takes a very petty person to point that out. Thanks for confirming that you are a small person indeed.

      By the way, I fail to see any merit in paying a player before they hit the majors and I would doubt that it would ever be the case.

  9. Bobbie17 says:

    It seems like everyone is forgetting how terrible this team was before Puig. His energy is still what makes this team good, potentially, really good. The rest of the team still feeds off of it. Stifle it, and we will be back to having a couple of good pitchers, a hitter(possibly) and a .500 record, watching the Giants lift another trophy.

    Be very careful what you ask for.

  10. SpokaneBob says:

    I can’t wait to get back to Dodger Baseball! The worse part of the trip down under is the breaks between games.

    Last night my Daughter joked that at least we currently have the best record in ALL OF BASEBALL. Lets hope that’s the case at the end of the year.

  11. Badger says:

    Thanks for posting here Dustin. I am a daily reader of your site and a fan of your writing. I think your point is well made but I don’t see extending a young arm out in that kind of deal. No need to. And I watch Pederson closely now, but before offering guaranteed large I give him a taste of pennant drive pitching. I think he was already given a great deal on his signing bonus. A lot of guys hit AA. Gordon for example. I want to see him in more pressure situations against top line Major League arms.

    Well said grumpy.

  12. Watford Dodger says:

    I think Dustin’s still a bit sore with you from criticising his mate Daniel’s piece in your blog on Jan 26th titled “Blog Overload” ( like the commas!). I think you need to understand that we enjoy Mark’s takes on things & his irreverent attitude. We don’t always agree of course but that’s the point of this blog. He lights the touch paper and then stands back to see the reaction. None of us take it too seriously as let’s face it – we are never all gonna agree on the same thing. It’s this different writing style that we all enjoy. Dustin – you are a fine writer – don’t take this too seriously.

  13. Bob says:

    Yes the Real Bob.

    This is the strangest season in the history of MLB, as far back as I can remember. The Dodgers and D-Backs played games half way around the World and the Dodgers won all of the “World” games. That makes the Dodgers the 2014 World Champions. Wouldn’t be nice if Bud could recognize this fact and pronounce the Dodgers as the winners of the 2014 World Series, and then announce that the 2013 United States season can begin and the Dodgers will then attempt to win the 2014 US Series. If Bud wants to create such a strange schedule then we can interprete it in any manner that we wish. Bring on the US season any day now.

  14. Dustin Nosler says:

    I do have a degree in journalism and put it to use in my blogging. If I did what Mark did in a story, I’d be in big trouble. It’s different with blogs and, in this situation, it’s more of a courtesy. My standards are different, I guess, since it’s what I was taught.

    There are ways to paraphrase what I said. Instead, it’s a straight copy-and-paste (with after and before in all caps). It’s probably a little petty, but it’s also a fact. And he misquoted my figures, so these editorial mistakes weren’t isolated incidents in this post alone.

    The last line of my post says I don’t expect either to happen. I openly admit it. Just thought it’d be something interesting to explore, especially since there’s no precedent for such a deal.

  15. TMWISH says:

    C’mon mark if you are gonna argue with another article at least get the figures right and please don’t compare Joc with Trayvon. No one in the scouting community would ever say they are comparable at this stage. Most never thought Trayvon was more than a 4th OF. Pretty much everyone agrees now that Joc is solidly a starting OF with potential for more if he can stay in CF. And while Miller was rated highly, Urias is doing things that haven’t been done in years. He stats were better at the same league as Kershaw pitched but he was two years younger. The argument is we have financial muscle why not use it to gain advantage over the competition by keeping our young talent underpaid for longer. As far Puig goes. He is our best OF. The front office and the coaching staff knows this. He will play most everyday and he should. If puig being a little aggressive on the bases than fine. He is still an above average base runner just on his speed alone. Puig is not be sent down to minors again unless he really struggles to hit. Like Andre to start last year struggle not just hit 280 and no struggling does not get to include spring training cause it does not matter at all. Puig will make an out on the base paths that will make you shake your head every once in a while, he will over throw a cutoff man every now and again and he will go after a bad breaking ball in the dirt from time to time and that is okay because in totality he is still the most valuable OF the Dodger have(Unless Kemp comes back in 2011 form which he might but that must be seen to believe). All these problems Kemp once had too and they didn’t go away in one offseason either. That is okay eventually they will go away and everyone will love him like they should. Also I hope the whole team starts bat flipping like puig it is wonderful to watch when he does it.

  16. Badger says:

    Pederson is hardly underpaid. He knew the score when he signed:

    Joc Pederson: Well, we talked about it before I came out, a lot before the draft even happened, and we made up a number that we thought was enough – like life-changing money, you know – and if they gave us the number then I was gonna sign and if they didn’t give us the number then I was just gonna go to USC. Either they were gonna give me the money or they weren’t.

    He got his money.

    As for comparing him to Robinson, I have no problem comparing anyone to anyone or anything. In college I was once asked to compare and contrast an onion and an octopus.

    Simple fact is – there are no guarantees. When Pederson does at the big league level what he did at AA he will be rewarded. As of now, he is an extremely well paid AAA player with zero at bats in the big leagues.

  17. Mark_Timmons says:

    Poo,

    If you were even close to relevant… yawn!

    Dustin,

    1. On a flyer I called my friend who is a copyright attorney and asked if what I wrote was plagiarizing. When he stopped laughing, I had my answer, but I suppose that if you are a journalist, you would be sensitive to such things, so OK – I’m fine with that. I just don’t really care.

    2. I skewed the numbers on purpose to see if people were really paying attention. Dustin was, but he was the only one. Sorry, I played you on that – I just wanted to see. I could have copied and pasted like the intro sentence. ;)

    Peace!

    TMWISH,

    Don’t compare Joc to Trayvon? Why? Lots of people did. BA said he could be Kemp’s “successor in centerfield.” I hope I got the quotation marks right (I do care).

    What is so outlandish about that? Trayvon was rated the Dodgers 9 and 10 prospect in 2010 and 2011. Sure Pederson is rated by BA as #1 this year, but some of that is a reflection of the state of the farm.

    You may not agree… and that’s fine, but don’t act like it’s crazy because it’s not. They are similar players in many ways.

    I respect your right to disagree, but guys like Poo are sniveling little cowards hiding behind the anonymity and safety of a keyboard, because they are too chickenshit to post under their real names.

  18. Mark_Timmons says:

    Yes, you are coward, because I know you would never talk to my face like that. So accept yourself for what you are.

    Secondly, I’m not going to waste space posting stats of Robinson and Pederson, but you are sick if you don’t think there is a comparison between the two.

    Now, almost all of the Prospects are pitchers.

    • TMWISH says:

      Trayvon’s 2010 statline in AA .297/.401/.434 wOBA .386 wRC+134 with an almost 400 BABIP and an ISO of .138 Jocs 2013 line in AA .278/.381/.497 wOBA.398 wRC+155 w/ a much more reasonable 327 BABIP and an ISO of 219 and much better scouting reports to boot There is no comparison between the two players. One is clearly better than the other and that is without considering that Joc can actually play CF meaning even if they hit the same joc would be the better player. So please don’t continue to compare the two and don’t bring up AAA stats those are beyond meaningless cause of the park/league they are played in.

  19. Badger says:

    Pederson and Guerrero are still in the minors. Along with Arrueberonimo the Dodgers have 3 position players that are very close to ML ready.

    Yeah, why Rosin? That was the plan?

  20. Pete M. says:

    Damn this is getting old… I enjoy alot of blogs out there and take what I like from each of them… I don’t know the protocol of blogs, but there hopefully is a way to excise the Poo’s of the world… As I’ve said before, were on the cusp of a real good team and results here with the Blue…Stanton is history, Puig aint going anywhere, Joc is a starting OF soon, we got pitcher power ungry with Seth and Dee Gordon is not the long solution… Lets get one for Vinny…

  21. dpwtv says:

    Jae, have you ever disagreed with anything Mark has ever written? He is your father-in-law right? You know, if you disagree with something he says, he won’t disown you.

  22. Badger says:

    He’s a mongrel that took that name deliberately. The goal of a troll is to see how much disruption his idiocy can stir up. I say ignore the bore. He will go away.

    I saw something about Puig on an ESPN banner today but didn’t catch what it was. Anybody know?

  23. Jae says:

    Not Mark’s son-in-law. Don’t even know him. I don’t always agree with him, but he’s a stand up guy and sticks to his opinions. He shows everyone respect unless they disrespect him – then look out! I like that a lot! I’d go to war with him…

  24. Badger says:

    So when does Kemp start hitting? He’s like 1 for the last week.

    Kershaw says he is fine. Dodgers Indigestion says his contract still a bargain. I guess they know how to figure those things, but that much guaranteed money on anybody makes me nervous. I know it’s insured, but 200 guaranteed? What are the odds he starts 30+ every year? Shoulders, ankles, hammys – toenails? Our depth is scroinged.

    League not worried. Says he has nothing to prove in Spring Training. I beg to differ.

    • TMWISH says:

      It does not matter how kemp hits in minor league games. It is all about timing for now. Kershaw has started 30 games every year of his career and in a market where ellsbury can 140 million how much do you think kershaw would get??

      • Badger says:

        How much do I think he would get?

        25 for 6. And that would be risky. And it absolutely matters whapt Kemp is doing against minor league pitching. If he can’t hit that he won’t hit ML pitching.

        You asked.

        • TMWISH says:

          Does not matter kemp already has shown when his timing is right he can hit major pitching and you are insane if you think kershaw gets the same deal as tanaka pretty much

          • Badger says:

            As tanaka pretty much?

            I am nuts. Certified by some of the best drs the government can buy. I just don’t believe in long term guaranteed contracts for anybody, especially pitchers.

            And I was merely pointing out Kemp ain’t ready, and until he can straighten out minor league pitching it won’t matter he can now run. And if you disagree with that you’re more nuts than I am.

  25. Badger says:

    Dodgers not getting much respect in Fantasy projections. Kershaw #1 of course, Ramirez #3. After that? At their respective positions – Gonzalez at 10 and Puig at 22.

Click Here to Leave a Reply