Categorized | Mark Timmons

It’s may be time to sell

The Dodgers had a nice win last night, but unless they can run off about 12 in a row, it appears very unlikely they will make the playoffs.  Skunks don’t shed their white stripe overnight and the Dodgers aren’t likely to suddenly become clutch overnight.  As the sun sets on the Dodgers chances to get to the post season, it appears more and more likely that they will become sellers.  Build the farm, get younger, re-tool for the future.  Who is likely to get dumped?

  1. Andre Ethier – the only question is how much the Dodgers have to eat and how many prospects they get;
  2. Carl Crawford – same as above except he is injury-prone and older;
  3. Adrian Gonzalez – his power is gone.  He’s a slow-footed singles and doubles hitter.  Put him on a good team and he will shine;
  4. Chris Capuano
  5. AJ Ellis
  6. Mark Ellis

Coincidentally,  all of the above players will be 32 or older next season.  You think the injury bug was bad this year?  I did not even include Lilly, Uribe, Hairston, Punto and Guerrier because they are old and have no value.

Stan and Ned,

This is the worst start by a Dodger team in my lifetime and the highest paid Dodger team of my lifetime.  It’s an EPIC FAIL.

Throw in the towel.  Admit that you were stupid in thinking you could buy your way to respectability (just like I told you).  Sign that Cuban RH pitcher, stockpile prospects and build around Kemp, Puig, Ramirez, Pederson, Seager, Kershaw, Jansen and FedEx. The Dodgers should be able to get 10-12 prospects for the above players.  Build the team the Dodger way – forget the old has-beens.  Youth trumps it all.

UPDATE

Mark giving Badger what he deserves:

Here's What Happened Last Time I Saw Badger!

Here’s What Happened Last Time I Saw Badger!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Badger, Roger (Anew) and Mark at Camelback Ranch.

camelbackranch-2009-0571

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

36 Responses to “It’s may be time to sell”

  1. Watford Dodger says:

    Agree with all of the above. Would maybe keep Gonzo for his RBI potential. Would try and get Stanton for Kemp although we may have to swallow some salary or bite the bullet with a couple of prospects but the upside is we gain a 5 tool younger version of what Kemp used to be – I would gamble that Kemp’s best days are behind him. Mark’s right we need a younger team that is hungry and can grow together.

  2. Badger says:

    Yes. We all know where you stand. You have been pounding this idea for weeks now.

    And you know where I stand. It’s still 6 weeks to the trade deadline. Matt Kemp is on rehab assignment (and last night looked like he has all year) and who knows what is happening with Carl Crawford. We sure look better with Hanley in the lineup, so, why not wait a few weeks before pulling any triggers? I still contend that when the varsity gets back on the field, this team could win.

    Having said that, if the organization has decided to give up on this group, I will understand and support the decision. I have two concerns about that decison. 1. the guy in charge of any trades – one Jed Clampetti. The fact that he is our GM makes me plenty nervous. I don’t think he would recognize an up and comer if the kid sat in his lap. And 2. the training staff. No matter what we do, those people are still around and anyone we get in here will be subject to their schedules. Obviously, what they do does not work.

    So, who do we keep? Hanley is 29 and Matt Kemp is 28. Ethier is probably being shopped as we speak. Crawford, Gonzalez, Beckett, and Greinke are untradeable unless you want to swallow about a hundred million.

    “Adrian Gonzalez – his power is gone. He’s a slow-footed singles and doubles hitter. Put him on a good team and he will shine”

    His power isn’t “gone” as you suggest. It isn’t what it was, but he is slugging .463 with an OPS+ of 129. Gonzalez is not the problem Mark. The problem is Kemp. The problem is Crawford. The problem is about $75 million on the Disabled List. The problem with this team is conditioning. There is no good reason why players under the age of 36 should be hurt as much as the Dodgers are. Beckett is 33 and Billingsley is 28. That just isn’t THAT old.

    The problem with the Los Angeles Dodgers is conditioning. That staff needs to go.

  3. Watford Dodger says:

    Just read this morning’s additions to yesterday’s thread with much interest. This is the first time I’ve been a contributor on any site and although have only joined in the jousting recently I am really enjoying the banter & it is actually quite good to hear different perspectives & opinions as it is very easy to become one eyed with your own views.
    Anew’s (Rodger) explanation of how some of you have come together, Mark, Badger and a few others I guess was really interesting & how u’ve become good buddies along the way.
    Mark if u had one of those pics Anew was referring to – would love to see what you guys look like – to put a face to the comments. Either way its a great site although a little uncomfortable sometimes when one or two of you have your ‘domestics’ and it gets a bit personal.
    Lets face it we all love the Dodgers & what ever happens – a bit like family – your stuck with them for life!

  4. Bball says:

    500 by the break. I can see it. Keep the faith and stay positive

  5. Badger says:

    Watford, on some of those old sites there was really no moderator and the thread was continuous. You just came in, commented, and moved on. There was no real “topic” so we discussed EVERYTHING. During the off season it got pretty hot. It was during a very contentious time in our nation’s history and with a White House intent on war, the liberals and conservatives went at it pretty good. We now know how that worked out. Through it all, Mark, one of the board’s conservative, always kept his civility. Others, most notably OD, came across like roid/sweenie. Those guys usually weeded themselves out. I wonder sometimes where many of those old guys went. One, our liberal lawyer, Lawdog, passed away. He was a good guy and really loved talking Dodger baseball. He hated the war but loved the Dodgers.

    It is possible, for some, to have different views and discuss them without the name calling.

    .500 by the All Star break would be fantastic, but it might be a bit much to ask. 20 games, most against the West. I would like to see us win 14 of them and go into the break on a win streak. That would put us at 45-48 and we would have made up some ground in the West by beating everyone of those in front of us. By the third week in July we will have a better idea of what direction we should go. I don’t quite now. I’ll leave that to others.

  6. Pete M. says:

    Watford you hang with your aforementioned group…. I think all this sell-sell crapola is boring.Firing Magic??? Really??? No heart on this team??? Hard to say whether this guy or that guy has given up… Helluva assertion… I think not!!!
    Like B-ball said, lets get to .500 and see then if we can get this thing started…
    P.M.A…

  7. Jas says:

    Magic is nothing for the Dodgers and its obvious the Dodgers should be sellers. You are crazy if you think otherwise.

  8. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Badger said this on the last thread:

    “I have been thinking about how we draft and what must be done in the minor leagues to prepare our draftees for the bigs. Maybe we will have better evaluations, and better instructors now that we have actually committed some revenue toward that end.”

    And towards that end the Dodgers hired during the past year Bob Engle, Gerry Hunsicker and Pat Corrales, and have beefed up the scouting department.

    http://www.truebluela.com/2012/11/12/3636864/dodgers-scouting-staff-international

    Problem is, some people think that this stuff will bear fruit immediately. Well, maybe the signing of Puig has added an immediate fruit, but all in all, it’s simply going to take time, i.e., if it’s done right. So in effect, with those changes the Dodgers are doing it the Dodger Way. It’s just not going to be fully apparent until we move further away from the McCourt era.

    Yes, the Dodgers farm system leaves a lot to be desired. But that’s not because of the current ownership. They are in the process of committing major resources to what had become a moribund farm system. The Dodgers don’t pick particularly high in the draft (if things continue as they have, maybe that will be different next year), and international signings involve mostly teenagers that are going to need some years to develop.

    In the meantime, the Dodgers will likely make some personnel moves, and maybe we’ll sign that Cuban pitcher Mark alluded to, and maybe even the Cuban outfielder who is also in a similar situation (i.e., he does not fall under the current financial restraints for signing international talent). Sell??? Too early for that discussion. But I have little doubt that the Dodgers will do whatever they can to move some or all of the players Mark mentioned. Some, like Mark Ellis and Capuano will be gone after this year in any case, so I doubt if they could bring back all that much, unless our trading partners need those pieces, if only for the half year remaining.

    If the Dodgers get all their pieces back in the lineup healthy, then I don’t see why they would be too anxious to trade A.J. Ellis. He’s still a decent hitter with good on base skills. Just the sort of complementary player who would be valuable in a loaded lineup. He just doesn’t provide all that much in a lineup around him that’s not producing. And he handles the pitching staff well, is a solid defensive catcher, and throws well. By all means I’d trade him if the return was good. Otherwise, he’s not a bad first string catcher, and if the Dodgers acquire better between now and next year, he’d also be a valuable backup. And he’s not overly expensive.

    I would trade Kemp for his younger counterpart in Miami. But that deal would require the Dodgers to throw in a bunch of money, and add prospects. Otherwise, if Stanton is going to be traded, it will be to a team that offers them multiple top rated prospects and/or players.

    I don’t know what other Dodger teams have done up through this point in previous seasons. But I do know that the Dodgers didn’t finish particularly high in 2005, thus enabling them to get Kershaw with the 7th overall pick in 2006. And I forget exactly what year it was, but the Dodgers had the second overall pick when they drafted Darren Dreifort. Actually, that was when the leagues alternated the first overall pick each year. Had it been the National League’s turn, the Dodgers would have taken Arod as the first overall pick. So I don’t know if this is the worst Dodger team I can remember.

  9. Mark_Timmons says:

    Someone asked to be able to put a face with the name, so here you go. Update above!

  10. Bobby says:

    I agree with most of the names on the “see ya” list.

    I however wouldn’t trade Agone. He’s a stabilizing player. 1b, plays all the time, solid numbers, good guy. Keep him at 1b for the next 3-4 years. Batting in between the younger, better, more athletic players, he’ll still produce solid numbers.

    I would trade anyone who’s blocking a kid whos ready. Problem is, whos ready? We have nobody right away to play 3b, or 2b, or 1b. We think we have Pederson ready for an outfield spot, so I’d for sure ship off Ethier.

    Problem is, we have a GM who bends over during trades. He gave up too many assets without asking for enough cash in return to balance out the salaries in the Boston deal. He (or Kasten) signed Ethier to a deal that was promptly overpaying the second it was signed. Do we really feel he won’t get abused in a deal to ship out Andre? Or Cap? Or Ellis? Or anyone else?

  11. AnewBlueDay says:

    Badger, there was also Kandodger, the poster from Kansas who died, I believe while we were still at the L.A. Times board. There was a picture of him in his man-cave, or at his desk.

  12. Watford Dodger says:

    Great photo – thanks for posting.
    Agree totally with Bobby – keep Gonzo. Good guy, good numbers.

  13. Quasimodo says:

    While we put everything on Ned, I see its more likely a collective conference towards PR and marketing rather than giving Ned an open checkbook with instructions to have at it. The franchise is not going down the tubes. Maybe this season is for the Dodgers, but you can bet the franchise is worth more than the new owners invested. The Cubs franchise is ranked 3rd in value, or so I think, and they haven’t won a championship in over a century.

  14. Badger says:

    That was a great day! Doesn’t matter we don’t agree on all things baseball, or politics, or religion, we are friends and we likely always will be.

    I keep AGon too. He is a solid pro and if players listen to him they will learn. He will probably be a coach one day.

    Great post Brooklyn. The Dodgers system will improve quickly, but it will of course take more than a few months. I would like to add that when that trade was made last year I had NO PROBLEM with the players coming this way. I thought they all needed to get out of the dysfunction that Boston had become and coming to L.A. would be new life for them. The problem I had with the deal was sending so much back for an obvious Boston salary dump. The injuries to Gonzalez and Crawford were, by all accounts that I read, easy enough to recover from. What I didn’t understand, and still don’t, is why Jed felt the need to give up anyone in return. Nobody else in all of baseball was going to take on those salaries, that was clearly obvious. We could have used a few of those arms this year. Loney, one pitcher should have been enough. If we were to try to do the same thing with any of our guys now, we would have to swallow a ton of salary. Boston not only didn’t have to do that, they got value in return.

    It could be that all of those guys are way past their prime. Could be that Crawford will never play another game. Could be that AGon will never hit more than 10 home runs in Chavez Ravine. I don’t care about that. I really don’t. What is more important is that we now have an owner that is not afraid of stepping out on the stage, taking some risks and spending money. McScrotum used all his scratch up buying real estate and keeping Jamie adorned. Those days are, gratefully, behind us. These new guys will get it done. I am sure of it.

  15. Quasimodo says:

    Anew/Roger, thank you for clarifying. When Anew(you)claimed you laid out a 4 OF plan I remembered it was Roger who did that, Thus, that’s why it made sense that you are one in the same.

  16. AnewBlueDay says:

    Quas: I still like that 4 outfield plan. It gives a bit of rest to each player each week. Let’s them be there for a real pinch-hitter for (whoever is) the manager. Then, if one of the 4 goes down for a week or so, there is really the big three left to play and not just a Herrera or Hairston to cover.

    MARK — do you have the earlier photo of Venice Glenn, Robber, the bartender, and myself at that Giants/Dodgers game from about 2005?

    • Badger says:

      I like it come mid summer when guys start wearing down. Most managers don’t bench All Stars in the first couple of months, which having Puig start the year on the 25 man would have required. Who knew guys would go down so quickly?

      I was at the pennant clincher in S.F. with Robber, Maddy and Venice. A good time was had by all…… all but ‘cept Venice. But, he made up for it. Twice. Dammit.

  17. Quasimodo says:

    Roger, so do I. You are a ‘prince’ with the way to organize your words where I am not. So thank you for coming to my rescue adding sense to a point I was trying to make.

  18. Gonzo says:

    Trade Kemp? Really? Stanton is even more injury prone than Kemp. Although Kemp is in a rut right now, I still think he’s a game changer for another 4-5 years. He might lose some speed along the way, but he will be solid for this team. I think these tribulations will make him a better and marter player. Once he realizes that he can help the team when he isn’t hitting I think everything will come full circle.

    I think that the 30+ year olds will be phased out in 3-4 years. Whoever is our GM going forward needs to do the following, IMO:

    1. Rebuild the bullpen staff, and return Jay Howell there.
    2. Build the bench with younger versions of Hairston/Punto
    3. Allow players to get Wally Pip’ed don’t stop the youth.

  19. Dave says:

    Mark i appreciate that picture with the head lock on badger , some bodys gotta do it now and then , civility in its proper form especially for badger !

    • Badger says:

      Thanks Dave. Considering you wanted to knife me I think that is a step in the right direction.

      What that picture doesn’t show is I had Mark’s nut sack in my right hand. When he let go, I kneecapped him and took off running. Didn’t stop until I got to Sedona.

      Not really. I can’t run from Glendale to Sedona.

      I don’t want to trade Kemp but I would do it for Stanton. Stanton is only 23. But seriously, for MILLIONS of reasons, that will NEVER happen.

  20. AnewBlueDay says:

    Gonzo – next season, I want one guy on the bench who can tattoo a baseball. By that I mean, hit it hard. Not just 4 guys who hit singles and doubles.

    A game changer — remember Matt Stairs and his ownership of the Dodgers with late inning pinch homers.

    A Rusty Staub or Smokey Burgess pinch hitter. Even a Manny Mota who really helped the Dodgers over the years.

    I just noticed that former Dodger Ruggiano hit his 10th homer today for the Marlins.

  21. Rob says:

    Watching Evoldi pitch to the midgets and he is dealing!

  22. Badger says:

    We still need a legit lead-off hitter.

  23. Bobby says:

    Dodger power

  24. Quasimodo says:

    That’s how its supposed to go. Scoring in the later innings and closing with the pens best.

  25. Rob says:

    I feel so much more confident with kenley as the closer. Agon still has pop and cappy look great!

  26. Anonymous says:

    By the way, I realize that Agon’s power isn’t what it used to be, but that HR in the 9th was #10 on the year. 10 HRs in 74 games works out to about 22 in 162. So he’s not exactly powerless. And maybe if there was more hitting around him he’d do even better.

    Besides, if he hits .300, gets on base consistently, hits a bunch of doubles, and plays good defense, I would be happy. With hitters in front and behind him (assuming everyone is healthy, and the Dodgers make an upgrade or two), he would drive in and score a lot of runs, even though he is probably slower than Mark (SMILE).

    I knew Agon was going to hit that HR in 9th. Predicted it. That is, just after my iPhone beeped with an update while I was watching the game on MLB.tv. Since those updates are mostly a change of score, I surmised that there was a delay in what I was watching, and that the team hitting (the Dodgers) must have just scored.

    Another good win, but still a long way to go before we can really get excited. Need to beat the Giants, and get back a healthy Matt Kemp ready to contribute.

  27. Quasimodo says:

    Will somebody please get a scouting report to the Dodgers before tomorrow’s game? Bumgarner was throwing at over 75% for strikes last time! And that means it might just be good to be a bit more aggressive at the plate this time around.

  28. Dave says:

    its all good badger , i think you no where i stand , up and in is good now and then , im bummed though mark had his chance , but we all strike out now and then better luck next time mark in your next get together !

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. [...] The affiliates won four of seven games on Saturday, and a pair of Dodgers rehabbed more… It’s may be time to sell – ladodgertalk.com 06/23/2013 The Dodgers had a nice win last night, but unless they can run [...]


Leave a Reply

Mandatory Daily Dodger Reading