Categorized | Mark Timmons

Kershaw, Greinke and Who is #3?

Aaron Harang is gone (thankfully).  Ted Lilly will likely never be what he once was (maybe a #4, but now he’s a # 8).  That leave Capuano and Ryu as part of the Dodgers rotation, but I see them as #4 and #5 starters (you pick the order).  It also leave the Dodgers without a true #3.  Sure Ryu has filled that spot and I will admit that maybe he can be a #3, but I think the Dodgers are currently without a #3 and with their woeful offense, they could really use a #3 starter.  Clayton and Zack form one of the best, if not the best 1-2 starters in baseball.  If you had to start a major league team right now, would you really take anyone over Clayton Kershaw as your #1 pitcher?  I think not!  You are watching the guy who will soon be known as the best Dodgers pitcher of all time.

But I digress.  Sure the Dodgers need hitting, but they really have enough talent on the team to score a lot more runs than they have been.  I think they have to play a different style of baseball and I think it is going to take a new and fresh enthusiastic manager to ignite this team… and if you are of the ilk that believes the manager makes no difference to professionals…. well I won’t waste words on trying to convince you otherwise.  You can’t grasp the concept.  Do you think the 1988 Dodgers would have won under Joe Torre?  It took a motivator like Tommy not a diplomat like Torre to win.  Mattingly is more like Torre and the Dodgers need a Tommy!  Mike Scioscia is a NL guy and fiery – he may just be what the doctor ordered.  Orel Hershiser has been suggested and I like Orel, but I don’t think he’s a manager.  He’s more like Torre than Tommy!  The Dodgers need a guy who is all out balls to the wall!

They also need a number three starter.  I suggested in the past that they trade Andre Ethier, but lets’ face reality, unless something really crazy happens to some team in contention whereby they need a journeyman’s bat and don’t care what they pay, there is NO MARKET for Andre.  No one is going to take on his salary.  We are stuck with him, but it’s not a bad thing.  He will hit 18-22 HR and drive in 90 with batting .280 and playing good defense.  He’s overpaid, but so are most of the rest of the team.  The Dodgers can survive with him in RF with an occasional blow by SVS or may Puig (later this season).  Juan Uribe and Nick Punto seen to have an idea of how to play 3B.  Mark Ellis, Schumaker and Punto should do a credible job at 2B and Hanley will be back at some point.  After a quick start Dee is back to what he was last year offensively.  He has a short window here…

What I am eventually getting to is that offensively, the Dodgers need a new outlook, as a team and that includes a new manager.  This hitting malaise may not change with a new manager, but it’s not going to change without it.  What the Dodgers really need is a dominant number 3 starter.  In June or July, some will be available as other teams drop out of contention.   Lots of Dodger fans are ga-ga over Zack Lee – not me!  Regardless of his success at AA. I do not see him being any more than a #4 or #5 starter.  Ross Stripling, on the other hand could be the Dodgers #3… next year!  The Dodgers need a #3 now.  Jake Peavy could be that guy if the ChiSox drop out of contention.  He’s a health risk, but has close to ace-stuff.  Zach Lee, Joc Pederson and another player for Peavy might get that deal done.

This rotation could win a lot of games for the Dodgers:

  1. Kershaw
  2. Greinke
  3. Ryu
  4. Peavy
  5. Capuano

Just breaking the LH’ers up…

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About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

27 Responses to “Kershaw, Greinke and Who is #3?”

  1. Badger says:

    Ryu is #3.

    “You are watching the guy who will soon be known as the best Dodgers pitcher of all time.”

    Horsesh*t. Nobody will ever do what Sandy Koufax did.

    I think you are wrong about Ethier. The right team would take him, but we may have to pay some of the salary or take less in return. He is a 3 WAR player. That is valuable to every team. I still say that WAR would go up in the right park.

    “He has a short window here…” I think you may be right about that one. He needs to have some of those bunts go down a line and some of those grounders to find holes.

    “What I am eventually getting to is that offensively, the Dodgers need a new outlook, as a team and that includes a new manager.”

    You may be right about that. Let’s wait and see what Ramirez and Ellis might bring back to the lineup when they both return.

    Peavy? He hasn’t had a great year since 2007 and will be 32 this month. Can we please start focusing on players on the under side of 30?

  2. Badger says:

    Zambrano or Sanchez?

    I think I might have chosen Zambrano.

  3. Mark_Timmons says:

    “Horsesh*t. Nobody will ever do what Sandy Koufax did.”

    How can you say that without seeing Clayton pitch off an 18″ mound with a dead ball?

  4. Badger says:

    How can I say that? Are you serious?

    Just look at Koufax’s stats and tell me ANYONE will ever do that again. 4 no hitters, perfect game, 300 K’s 3 times, 40 shutouts, 137 complete games…. the list of his accomplishments is too long to go into…

    all by the age of 30. In the Hall of Fame by age 36.

    Nobody will ever do what he did. NOBODY. EVER.

    I am shocked you don’t know all of this.

    BTW, the dead ball era was over by Babe Ruth’s time. The live ball era started in 1920. Read up dude.

    • Badger says:

      And you said greatest Dodger pitcher of all time, not greatest pitcher to throw off an 18″ mound. Wouldn’t matter anyway. Kershaw couldn’t do what Koufax did if he was pitching of a 20″ mound. And if keeps throwing 130+ pitches, he won’t make it past 30 either.

  5. SpokaneBob says:

    I agree with Badger. I love Clayton and hope he has a long and sucessful career. He could establish some great career numbers, but he is not Sandy Koufax. Not yet anyway.

  6. Watford Dodger says:

    We let Lohse get away in March. He is a proper number 3.
    It was always going to come to this with so many injured/ over the hill pitchers in our 8 proposed starters. We all know that pitchers get injured during the season anyway so we never did have deep enough quality for a World Series tilt.
    Quantity yes. Quality no. I would rather let this season go than trade away our best prospects again.

  7. Watford Dodger says:

    We let Lohse get away in March. He is a proper number 3.
    It was always going to come to this with so many injured/ over the hill pitchers in our 8 proposed starters. We all know that pitchers get injured during the season anyway so we never did have deep enough quality for a World Series tilt.
    Quantity yes. Quality no. I would rather let this season go than trade away our best prospects again.

  8. Bobby says:

    If Kersh is the best Dodger pitcher, or 2nd best Dodger pitcher, of all time, I’ll take it! I really don’t care who’s a better Laker, Magic or Kobe, but I”ll take the 10 rings they got me and let you kids argue.

    I agree with Mark about the #3. Maybe Ryu is it; too bad Bills couldn’t have been it. Speaking of Ryu, I was at the Ritz LA Live after the Kings game Tuesday night, and Ryu, who now lives there, pulled up and got out of his car. I recognized his face right away; he is the biggest Korean dude I’ve ever seen! Nice enough when I waved at him.

    I have always wanted Jake Peavy, but now he’s forever injured. Ace one day, 5 innings next day. Plus he’s signed for next year, AND has a player option for 2015. I’ll pass, unless the ChiSox pay a chunk of his salary (of course, Ned will politely decline any money offer as he did with Boston)

  9. Quasimodo says:

    I find it odd some do not see Ryu is a very good #3. I think he’s outstanding. But the talk about Kershaw besting Koufax is a tall order. It doesn’t seem we’ve seen Kershaw peek yet, so who really knows? Mark is correct that Kershaw is the King of this era. But we all know that. So is it true HanRam’s return will be by the time Dodgers @ Brewers? That’s more what I’m concerned about, something boosting our offense. We’ve got some tough teams with Braves and Cardinals. Between them are the Brewers and they have to face our #1, #2 and #3 starters. Or so I think.

  10. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Mark,

    Are you even old enough to have seen Koufax pitch? Greatest pitcher I ever saw, nobody even close. In fact, had he not had that circulatory problem in 1962 he may well have struck out over 400 that year. If memory serves, I believe he had over 200 when he went out in July. And forget the height of the mound. Koufax pitched in a 4-man rotation, and threw over 300 innings per year.

    So far Ryu is a #3. Only time will tell if he stays a number #3. In fact, he could be a #2, just not on this team.

    I think you’re dead wrong about Gordon. If there’s anything I observed about him in the minors, it’s that he would occasionally go into slumps, and then follow it up with long lasting hot streaks. I think’s it’s absolutely ridiculous to jump all over him because he doesn’t hit for a few games. He needs to get a couple of hundred at bats to begin making judgments about the size of his window. When Hanley comes back he should go to 3B, and Gordon should remain at short. Unless the Dodgers pull off a deal for a shortstop or third baseman, what are the alternatives. Cruz????? Sellers??????

    Ethier will probably be just fine, especially if Kemp starts hitting, and Hanley does the same when he returns. And Badger is probably right that there is a team out there that would take him, and that we would either have to eat some of his contract or take less in return.

    If everyone plays like I think they can, I’m satisfied with the following:

    1B – Gonzalez
    2B – Mark Ellis
    SS – Gordon
    3B – Hanley
    C – AJ Ellis
    LF – Crawford
    CF – Kemp
    RF – Ethier

    Put them in any order you like.

    Probably need to add another pitcher or two, but not Peavy.

  11. Kevin says:

    I think Gordon might be here to stay this time. He’s had a few hiccups at short but overall his defense is much improved and he seems to make all the routine plays which was his biggest problem before. We could do worse than having a light hitting SS who steals 35 bases a year at the bottom of the order.

  12. Badger says:

    “Greatest pitcher I ever saw, nobody even close.”

    Amen to that Brooklyn. Best pitcher any hitter in that era ever saw too. 54 complete games and 13 shutouts in his last two years. Good luck matching that Clayton.

    I too think Clayton is the best. I would take him over anyone. But there are some close seconds. Cliff Lee and Chris Sale are pretty good. David Price and Cole Hamels aren’t bad. Right here in the West there are some very good left handers in Patrick Corbin, Wade Miley and Madison Bumgarner.

    I am actually looking forward to having Ellis back. Can’t believe I am saying that but he looks like the best option in the two hole. Hope he can last the year and put up numbers similar to last year.

    • Kevin says:

      Couldn’t agree more Badger, Ellis is extremely underrated and we just seem to play better when he is in the lineup.

  13. HemmorhoidRage says:

    Okay lay off Billy Dancing with Myself. What he said is Clayton is the best pitcher in Dodger history that isn’t jewish, you guys just have Billy mistaken. I’m sure he will claim some such non-sense, dudes never been wrong, remember.

    I think Billy is kind of right,Ryu is a toss-up as a number 3, he has done a commendable job so far, but to tell you the truth, the difference between a good number 3 and a good number 4 is actually pretty marginal, in other words, it really doesn’t matter. Reality is you need a pretty solid group 3 thru 5 if you really are going to contend anyway during the regular season. The post season is a different story, you need a solid 1 thru 3 to get the ring. However, Billy is going to tell you that Ryu is the best Korean #3 in Dodger history, and I agree with him. In fact, I’ll go out on the limb and say that Ryu is the best Korean pitcher in Dodger history.

    Man it is nice to have Greinke back, the test will be how he is doing after a few more starts. The adrenaline runs big in a first return from an injury, now the test will be how is he in reality coming back from an injury prior to complete healing, could have been the biggest mistake he could have made.

    I mentioned this previously, Crash Gordon would get off to a fast start, but how will he do once the pitchers catch onto him. Can he make the adjustments at the big league level? Time will tell, but Billy will somehow take a position on both sides of the issue.

    “I’m dancing with myself, oh oh, dancing with myself…”

    • Bobby says:

      Actually I’d say Chan Ho Park is the best Korean in Dodger history, then Ryu, then Hee Seop.

      actually, a good bottle of soju is #3, and Hee Seop is 4

  14. Bobbie17 says:

    Joc Peterson should be untouchable. It looks like he gets it. Just hope that the Giants rotation stays bad, but don’t count on it. Can Beckett really be that bad? I’m afraid the answer is yes. It’s time for the journeymen minor league starters to step up and prove they deserve to be in the big leagues. Keep throwing Magill out there; give him some confidence and allow him to be good. Maybe winning a few and others losing will take some of the pressure off him. I can’t believe he can’t pitch in the majors. These guys have to learn to perform under the spotlight called the Dodgers. Why don’t our coaches give these guys the confidence needed to perform at the highest level? It seems that when they get there, they fold. Why is that? I don’t believe it is lack of talent.

  15. Quasimodo says:

    Kershaw #1 Greinke #2 Ryu #3 sure removes a load from relievers. Greinke’s return is big on making things feel much better. I know I sure feel the hole Dodgers are in isn’t as deep as it was two days ago.

  16. emerson-Lake says:

    How about you for the next manager, Mark, are you available? Then you could personally tell Ryu “thanks for what you’ve done holding the fort here, but you’re really maybe not quite a four.” He is easy a three, and on other teams, a two. He’s a leader, the kind you can trust with a big game–he’s actually been our stopper this year. Love to see him in the playoffs and series. What you need is better four or five if you can get them…but don’t go throwing all of our best prospects in a basket and shipping it off for a one-year fix–especially one who’s had big time arm problems. Agree that Lee is an oversold 4 or 5–at least now–he’s going to have to come up with something new to get beyond that–but Pederson is a potentially big-time talent. Instead of trading him, why don’t we just freeze him until we need him? :)

  17. jerry says:

    i like fife better then Magill, and i like kemp hitting in the 3 spot better then in the 4th…when he gets on ..he now can run..but in the 4th ..with gonz ..kemp can run..

  18. beckett_rockett says:

    the answer should be Josh Beckett. his 2011 self should come out!

  19. Badger says:

    Cap is our 4. Whoever steps up will be the 5 until Beckett gets back.

    Kemp is the three hitter. His average and his OPS are going up. AGon is our RBI guy. Ethier hits 5th until Ramirez gets back.

    Opportunities abound.

  20. HemmorhoidRage says:

    Newsflash: Tom Niedenfuhrer greatest closer in Dodger history.

    Revised NewsFlash: Tom Niedenfuhrer greatest German closer in Dodger history.

    Revised Revised Newsflash: Tom Niedenfuhrer greatest Dodger closer in history to advance Jack Clark’s legend.

    Newsflash: Dee Gordon greates basestealer in Dodger history…

    Don’t you love silly declarations?

  21. HemmorhoidRage says:

    Newsflash: KEN SIGHTING

    Ken last seen running down Balboa with tail between legs being chased by a rabid badger. Story developing, tune in later for updates.

  22. LOL says:

    I’m still Laughing Out Load everyday at moronic statements.

    Ethier – May BA .311, OBP .396, HRs ZERO, new approach and still wearing bandage on his hand. Could continue to improve throughout the year.

    Kershaw – #1
    Greinke – #1A
    Ryu – #3A
    Bills – #4

    Beckett – #6
    Fife – #6 (Don’t count on him)
    Capuano – #7 (might improve)
    Msgill – #7 (might improve)
    Lilly – #8 (Don’t count on him)

    Still rather have Amezaga than Cruz on the active roster.

    Pederson, another LH OF, No room for him.

    Looking forward to seeing Yimi Garcia and Ross Stripling next year.

    • Badger says:

      “I’m still Laughing Out Load everyday at moronic statements.”

      I doubt it. If you do, you are a mean spirited individual. There are no morons in here. There are a couple of people who like to instigate trouble, but, even those two aren’t morons. I laugh now and then, but it’s at something funny, not at any poster. btw, there are many who find the constant overuse of the lol acronym lame.

      Agree with you about most of that post. That rotation must be for next year because Bills isn’t a #4. Beckett will pitch in the rotation and will likely be the #5 unless a move is made. Garcia and Stripling won’t be in the rotation at the same time. At least not next year. Pederson or Puig will likely be traded.

  23. Bobby says:

    Amazing comeback by the Kings tonight! 2-0 series lead

    Go Kings Go!!

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