Categorized | Mark Timmons

Not the Right Mix

A lot of the pieces of the puzzle are in place for the Dodgers.  I think the rotation is absolutely fine and I would not be surprised if the Dodgers go to Spring Training with 7 or 8 starters still on the staff.  I could see them moving Capuano or  Harang in the right deal, but come the end of Spring Training, the Dodgers should have a good idea of who is healthy.  If they have a surplus of starters, it is likely there will be trade partners at that time.  So, there is no reason to make a move right now.

In the past I had great hope that Dee Gordon would become the Dodgers shortstop and leadoff hitter for the next 10 years.  I no longer hold on to that hope.  Dee Gordon is immature and erratic.  He is not going to suddenly change overnight.  He’s a good kid, but I do not see him ever being the Dodgers shortstop, and the Dodgers have discovered that most other teams feel the same way.  He has little value on the trade market.  It has been suggested that he move to 2B and platoon with Mark Ellis.  That would mean that he would get most of the starts at 2B. I guess he could leadoff, but he has never shown he can sustain a good OB% at the major league level and it would be naive to believe that he can suddenly do it now.  I am also of the belief that he would be a defensive liability at 2B.  It is also troubling that in the Dominican Winter League he has been successful in on 9 out of 15 stolen base attempts.  60% is horrible and speaks to his immaturity.  I have moved on from Dee Gordon.  I will not beat that horse anymore.  I think the Dodgers should trade him.  Let him get a fresh start, but the fact is:  he won’t bring much in return.  Maybe he just needs to play another year at AAA.

Where the Dodgers do not have the right mix is in the leadoff position.  They are lacking a true leadoff hitter and a major-league 3B.  I could be wrong, but I just don’t think Carl Crawford is the answer at leadoff and of course, with his contract, he is untradable.  I do like Andre Ethier much more than I used to.  Early in his career, I called him Mr. Softee and disliked his moodiness.  He has really improved his attitude and might even learn to hit lefties better under Big Mac.  However, the Dodgers do need a 3B and leadoff hitter and I can’t find one that is available.  There is a leadoff hitter that is available – one Michael Bourn.  My preference would be to sign Bourn to play CF and move Kemp to RF, which would be less stress on his body.

Since the Texas Rangers lost Josh Hamilton, they need another outfield bat.  Andre Ethier would hit 35+ HR in Texas.  He’s the guy the Rangers should target.  The Ranger have two 3B – Mike Olt and Adrian Beltre.  My preference would be Beltre and maybe the Rangers would want to move his contract and move Olt to 3B.  I would take either one.  If the Rangers would to trade Beltre to the Dodgers for Andre Ethier, I would also give them the pick of any starting pitcher on the Dodgers staff not named Kershaw or Greinke.

This would be the right mix:

  1. Bourn  CF
  2. Crawford  LF
  3. Kemp  CF
  4. Gonzalez  1B
  5. Ramirez  SS
  6. Beltre or Olt  3B
  7. Ellis/Schumaker 2B
  8. Ellis C

I could dig that!

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

42 Responses to “Not the Right Mix”

  1. Bobbie17 says:

    I’m more worried about 3b and lf than leadoff, per se. The Rangers just lost 60 home runs, so I doubt if they will give up Beltre. How good is Olt? Another minor leaguer? Maybe coming from another organization, that means more, but we have had lousy luck with LA minor leaguers. We could have had Michael Young for a year or 2, but that ship has sailed. Maybe. How about getting him from the Phillies? He has a no trade, I think. He was so good, I can’t believe he has lost it so fast. There should be more in his tank. I agree with your take on Gordon. Unless a “small” guy can hit and run like Juan Pierre, don’t waste the time. You will know it when you see it. It isn’t Gordon. There is still work to be done to get the trophy. And a lot of luck with injuries, as always.

  2. Bill Russell says:

    That would be a pretty good lineup if everything you say pans out from above. I doubt that Texas would move Beltre however. I don’t think they’re having cash problems. After losing Hamilton and Napoli, there’s a going to be a powershortage in Texas. Looking forward to 2013.

  3. ken says:

    Trading Either and signing Bourne does appear to be an optimal solution, but, all things considered, I think that the dodgers should hold onto Either until Crawford proves that he can play everyday. Therefore I no longer will support a trade of Either until June 2013.

    Gordon is no longer needed as part of a platoon at 2B in 2013. Maybe he should stay in AAA for 2 years and prove his worth. IF he proves his worth then the dodgers may not need to resign Hanley. Gumby’s life is his for the making.

    Too bad the dodger minor league inventory is so poor. They could have made 1-2 trades to make them as good as the Tigers.

    Current dodger OBP for 2012 with more than 200 AB
    AJ Ellis .373
    Kemp .367

    Experimental Batting order for April 2013
    1. Kemp CF
    2. Crawford LF
    3. Gonzalez 1B
    4. Rameriz SS
    5. Ethier RF
    6. Cruz 3B
    7. AJ Ellis C
    8. Ellis/Schumaker 2B
    9. Pitcher

  4. SpokaneBob says:

    Thats a nice line up with Adrian at third, But I don’t think it will happen. I do agree that we are not likly to make any moves until the middle of spring training after we know who is healthy and what our most pressing need may be.

    I don’t agree about Gordon. How could a guy with his tools be a defensive liability at 2nd base if given the opportunity to learn the position. I could see a seniero where Ellis and Schumaker platoon this year while Gordon becomes the 2nd baseman at AAA in preperation for 2014.

    I think we are going to see what happens in spring training before we know how 3rd base works out. I think the job will be Cruz’s to lose, unless somesthing changes with Hanley. Uribe would have to hit 500 this spring if he isn’t released before then, which would be my preference.

  5. Pete M. says:

    Beltre, one of my favorite LAD INF’s of all time. Don’t know what hurt to me more, losing Beltre or Piazza. Of course Mikey’s statement that his contract offer was an ‘insult’ helps a bit. After all that, Texas’s Daniels would be hung effigy and they have already lost about 60+ HR’s…
    Dee…I’m with you Spokane Bob…. Just give Cruzzzz a shot…Plenty of trade chips on the roster, especially pitching…

  6. Michael says:

    How about we make a deal with the Royals for Alex Gordon. He played 3rd base before Moustakis moved him to LF AND he leads off.

    Another target I haven’t seen mentioned here is Anthony Rendon of the Nats. Ready for the show but blocked by Zimmerman. Just a thought.

    Ooh, Indiana at Butler. Who you rooting for Mark?

    • Mark_Timmons says:

      Michael,

      I root for Duke, but I like Butler and Indiana equally. Just enjoying the game with no rooting interest. I want to see Duke play IU.

  7. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Totally disagree with your comments concerning Gordon. Here’s what you don’t factor into the equation.

    1. Gordon was coming off a serious thumb injury. It may be completely healed, but that doesn’t mean it still doesn’t bother him. Sometimes, especially with a thumb joint, those things can continue to feel uncomfortable even after healing. I prefer to think of Gordon’s time in the Dominican Winter League as just a step in his recovery program.

    2. To emphasize the 60% stolen base stat is totally ridiculous. In 2011 with the Dodgers he stole 24 of 31, a 77.4% success rate. In 2012 is was 32 of 42, a 76.1% success rate. In fact, when he got hurt in July, Gordon was leading the NL in stolen bases. I don’t think a brief time spent in winter ball negates any of that. Again, we don’t know the circumstances under which he played, so to draw conclusion is patently absurd.

    3. How in the world do Gordon’s errors and stolen base percentage tell us that he’s immature? He certainly is erratic, at least to a degree, but that has nothing to do with immaturity. Gordon was probably rushed to the big leagues. No doubt he’s a bit raw, and no doubt that that contributes to erratic play. He may not change overnight, but I have no doubt that he will change over time. And by the way, the overnight thing is not out of the question. Sometimes it just takes a light to go on, and things do change suddenly, and then get gradually better from there.

    4. I see nothing that tells me that Gordon is immature. He simply lacks adequate experience, which he will only get by playing, and not having his season interrupted by injury. I have no problem with Gordon opening the season at ALBQ, where he could become a valuable insurance policy for the Dodgers.

    5. And why would Gordon be a defensive liability at 2B? I believe most of his fielding problems are throwing related. Shortening the throw could make a huge difference. And despite what some may think, range is extremely important at 2B, and so is a strong arm. A strong arm is an asset on ground balls up the middle, and on the DP, where strong throws get to 1B quicker on close plays.

    6. I have no problem with the Dodgers trading Gordon. But if you’re correct (and I’m not so sure I agree), and he can’t bring much back in return, then I’d hold onto him, and let him use the opportunity to prove all the naysayers wrong.

    7. I suspect that Hanley is not the long term solution at SS. If that’s the case, then the Dodgers will ultimately need someone to replace him at short. That could still be Gordon.

    8. If anything, if Gordon is completely healthy, this is probably the year for him to begin changing some minds. It starts in spring training, and will continue into the season, whether Gordon is in LA or ALBQ. I’d prefer to hold onto him, and see whether or not he’s ready to deliver for the Dodgers.

    9. I keep hearing about what McGuire might do for Ethier and other Dodgers hitters. Maybe he has some solutions for Gordon.

    10. As for Gordon’s slight build. I suspect that he will be adding some weight and some muscle. That’s usually a natural process as a player gets into his mid to late 20′s.

    • Mark_Timmons says:

      You have your opinion and I respect that, but read some of his Tweets – the dude is a teenager. My 13-year-old is more mature.

      Not saying he\’s bad…

  8. Badger says:

    Read some of his tweets? Really? Has anyone who ever read a tweet red a mature one?

    Don’t have much time here so…. what Brooklyn just said. Gordon has serious tools and has been all everything at every stop. To give up now would be stupid. I don’t believe the Dodgerd are stupid. They were when McDope ran them, but not now.

  9. RogerCraig says:

    On the other hand it my be stupid to hold on to false hope. Especially if no one else values him. From what I have heard, the GM’s who were interested in him wanted him as a CF not a SS.

  10. Nedsucks says:

    If bourn doesn’t sign before January he is going to be a bargin. I think either for beltre is too steep for Texas. I see us rolling with what we got and making a play for Headley around the trade deadline.

    If Texas moves kinsler to left does that take us out of the running for olt?
    I would assume so.

    I do see this happening
    Pit
    Joel Hannahran
    Garret Jones
    For
    LA
    Aaron Harang
    Dee Gordon

    Maybe? Eh? Go all in for Neil Walker!!!!

  11. Badger says:

    I would do that trade. Pitt won’t.

    If no one values Gordon then he is going nowhere anyway. Might as well stick him at AAA and see what happens.

  12. Mark_Timmons says:

    I used to be \”in love\” with Andy LaRoche like some of you are with Dee Gordon. I finally came to my senses. Hopefully, you will too.

    Peace out!

  13. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Why would the Dodgers want Garrett Jones? He plays either a corner outfield spot or 1B. Do we need someone in those positions?

    If the Dodgers make a deal for Hanrahan, I suspect it might include Scott Van Slyke, who can still be traded, along with Harang or Capuano. I’m not an expert on the DFA rules, but I believe the Dodgers may have had 10 days after designating SVS to include him in a deal. Not sure what happens after that. But I’m sure Ken can enlighten me (us).

    Not sure why people think Gordon isn’t valued by other organizations. He’s hit just about everywhere he’s been, except for last year with the Dodgers, and even that wasn’t totally horrible. Again, as I noted earlier, he was leading the NL in stolen bases when he was injured in July. Given that he wasn’t getting on base at a very high clip, that’s impressive. And for those wondering about his winter ball stats (other than fielding), he tied for the Puerto Rican Winter League batting title two years ago.

    I’ll second Badger on tweets. And how might Gordon’s tweets compare with the tweets of other players, coaches or managers? Fact is, I don’t think it’s very mature to judge someone else’s maturity unless you know them personally. Certainly not on their tweets.

    • ken says:

      A+, 10 days to (1) unconditionally release player or (2) assign the contract

      Why does anyone tweet?
      Then again, why does anyone blog??

    • Nedsucks says:

      Do we need a left handed power bat off the bench? Yes

      I don’t see value in SVS or not enough to give up an all star closer for. They need pitching and we got it. Harang in that ball park could win 10-12 games.

      Dee has no value. Because the only thing he has proven is that he can run. If someone needs a speedy infielder alexi casilla is out there. Those two pretty much have the same trade value.

  14. Mark_Timmons says:

    \”I don’t think it’s very mature to judge someone else’s maturity unless you know them personally. Certainly not on their tweets.\”

    That\’s a joke right?

  15. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Well, I was never in love with Andy LaRoche. Maybe my judgment is better than yours. And also, just because you’re in love with a player and it doesn’t work out, doesn’t mean that that applies everytime. I was in love with Matt Kemp, and stayed that way even after he struggled. Sometimes you have to stand by your convictions until it becomes totally clear in your mind that you were wrong. That happened with me with James Loney. Haven’t reached that stage with Dee Gordon. And why should I. He hit .304 in his stay with the Dodgers in 2011. Why can’t it be that that’s the Gordon that will emerge, and not the one we saw last year?

    Maybe you’ve come to your senses prematurely.

  16. Mark_Timmons says:

    Maybe ;) we will see.

    I just try and not repeat my same mistakes.

  17. Badger says:

    I would want Jones as a back-up for Gonzales, a 4th OFer, thunder off the bench and DH for inter-league. HE wouldn’t want that job and Pitt would never do that trade.

    As far as I can tell tweeting is just another way for enormous egos to say “here I am, look at me”. I have no interest in what anyone says there, especially pro athletes. All I care about is on field performance. I wait on Gordon. If he wins a job we are a better, more athletic team. If he doesn’t he goes back to the minors to work on his game.

  18. Mike Dixon says:

    So we should give up on Dee cause of his tweets?…..and because he not stealing enough bases in winter ball…that’s laughable Mark…..

  19. Eli says:

    If Dee Gordon isn’t the answer, then move him out and move on. Who is the answer that will solve more than just a single problem and how much would he cost? A trade with the Indians was propose, it said, Mark Ellis and two prospects for Asdrubal Cabrera.

    Well, Cabrera can play 2B/SS/3B, switch hits, has led off (not his best spot in the lineup) and would most likely cost just unproven prospects. and “VERY YOUNG” (read: IMMATURE) major leaguers like Gordon. The Indians are all about SP’s and upside prospects. So, there should be a pretty good deal to be made.

    At least one of the prospects has to be someone good if Dee Gordon is going to be included. The Indians traded for a Santana before, give them another one, Alex Santana (# 13). An SP prospect has to be the third player involved.

  20. Badger says:

    What two prospects? Mark Ellis has little real value. He’s just a back-up really. You want an All Star shortstop you are going to have to pay.

  21. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabreas01.shtml

    I’ll go along with Badger on this one. “What two prospects? Mark Ellis has little real value. He’s just a back-up really. You want an All Star shortstop you are going to have to pay.”

    Take a look at the link above. Asdrubal Cabrera, based on raw stats, is worth more than just any prospects.

    Eli, I’m not sure what prospects you’re talking about. Are “unproven prospects” (which is the definition of ALL prospects), the same as “upside prospects”? Last I looked Alex Santana was our #18, according to Baseball America in the 2012 Prospect Handbook. To the best of my knowledge they haven’t yet released the most up-to-date prospect list.

    Here’s Alex Santana’s stats:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=santan003ale

    He’s young, and hasn’t really played very much, so anything is possible. But to date, he doesn’t look like much.

    So if Dee Gordon is “IMMATURE” then we only have to include one good prospect? And I guess that third prospect can be any run of the mill Dodgers pitching prospect.

    Do you really believe that the Indians would give away Asdrubal Cabrera for your package if they have the same opinion of Dee Gordon as you do? I think not.

    Based on what I hear and on the stats, I certainly would like to have Cabrera. But he can’t play short if Hanley stays there. That means 2B, which is fine with me. And if Gordon gets his act together, then maybe things get shuffled around. Too many scenarios to enumerate here.

  22. Badger says:

    Honestly Brooklyn, do we really think we can land an All Star ss with what we have to offer? No. That isn’t going to happen unless we offer an All Star in return. We don’t have any to spare. We have Lee, Gordon and Puig. Everybody else is too far down the list to be of any real value in trade for a Major League All Star. Unless you are willing to offer up these guys, forget it.

  23. Pete M. says:

    First and foremost, hope you’re feeling better Badger!?
    Let me see, we’ve gone from tweets, instagrams and trading Dee G. +2 for Cabrera…Gotta be the egg nog…
    I hope that most of you are prepared to go ST with what we got now?? Time and xs (hopefully) pitching will put us in a much better bargaining position by March 27th.

  24. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Absolutely agree Badger. I pretty much said the same thing. And Pete, it could well be that we go ST with what we got now. Put simply, it is likely that something will happen between now and the start of the season. Maybe with Dickey about to come off the market, other teams will lower their sights and be satisfied to add lesser lights like Harang and/or Capuano. Maybe there won’t even be a rumor, and it’ll happen when we least expect it.

    For the most part I like what we have now, but I wouldn’t mind a little tweaking. And even more stuff could happen between the start of the season and the July trading deadline.

  25. Roger Dodger says:

    Filling out the roster, with new ownership — there are holes.

    2B, 3B (or SS if Hanley moves over), and catcher.

    2B could be a duo of this patch and that patch.

    3B could be Cruz with Uribe trying once and awhile.

    Catcher. This one still bothers me. A.J. Ellis had a nice season last year. 13 HRs, 52 RBIs and hit .270. Gee, he had 114 hits. It was a nice season at the plate — but not an All-Star.

    If I were them, I would consider the other A.J. A.J. Pierzynski.

    Ellis will probably even get better, but you never know. On the other hand, the league might catch up with him. If so, then it is too late for fix the catching department. With all of the moves and money — and really consider making the move.

  26. Bill Russell says:

    Any takers for Carl Crawford? What if we eat some of the contract? Then add in Michael Bourne. Go on ebay and buy a case of twinkies to send along with Carl and seal the deal.

    • Badger says:

      No thanks. I want to see what Crawford can do all healed up and out of dysfunctional Beantown. I think I would trade Ethier for Bourn. Not literally of course. Just Ethier out Bourn in. Make it happen Jed.

      I am back Pete. Had a reaction to a pain med. Back for more injections tomorrow. Won’t bother with the meds this time. I’ll just cowboy up.

  27. RoidRage says:

    So Badger, are you saying we need a Bourn Identity?

  28. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    No, we need to create a “Bourne Supremacy” that will lead to a “Bourne Legacy”.

    Just took a look at Bourn’s stats, and it appears he can hit lefthanders. His speed would be nice at the top of the order, and his defense welcome in CF, with Kemp moving over to his more natural position in RF, where he would be subject to a lot less wear and tear, and where his arm plays bigger than it does in CF.

    Still we would be losing some power. Ethier is still probably capable of 25-30 bombs. But he could probably bring back some real talent in a deal. Certainly worth exploring.

    And ditto what Badger said about Crawford.

    Now, if Dee Gordon could find his way back into the lineup, the Dodgers would have some serious speed with Bourn, Crawford, Kemp, Ramirez and Gordon. Speed and power, wonderful stuff.

    Roger, I’m still happy with A.J. Ellis. I thought he would hit .260 – .280 last year with a high OBP. Just didn’t expect the power. Clearly given that Ellis will be 32 in April, the Dodgers have to begin thinking about a replacement down the road. With their current lineup, Ellis will continue to be valuable if he can just get on base. Hopefully Fedex proves to be a competent backup. In the meantime the Dodgers need to develop his eventual successor in the organization. If something good becomes available outside the organization I’m OK with that too. Just not worried that Ellis represents any kind of immediate problem.

  29. Badger says:

    Yep. All that.

    We can give Bourn what he deserves. He was a 6 win player last year and should be at least a 4 win player in L.A. Get him here, send Ethier to Boston or Texas (he would light it up in Houston) and put Kemp where he belongs – right field.

    Or tee it up with who we have and make a strong move early or even at the deadline.

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  1. [...] Not the Right Mix A lot of the pieces of the puzzle are in place for the Dodgers.  I think the rotation is absolutely fine and I would not be surprised if the Dodgers go to Spring Training with 7 or 8 starters still on the staff.  I could see them moving Capuano or  Harang in the right deal, [...]… [...]

  2. [...] man. View full post on Yahoo! Sports – MLB – Los Angeles Dodgers News more… Not the Right Mix – ladodgertalk.com 12/15/2012 A lot of the pieces of the puzzle are in place for the [...]


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