Categorized | Mark Timmons

What if?

Before Guggs and Company took over the Dodgers, I think the Dodgers had one of the largest front office staffs in baseball composed of many former players and high-ranking scouts.  Since then, they have added even more with Engle, Hunsicker and now, Pat Corrales.  Pat is a highly respected former player and manager.  He worked with Stan Kasten in his last two gigs, so this was a natural thing to happen.  Pat has years of baseball experience and since he is of Mexican dissent, his expertise will be invaluable in Mexico, South America and even the Carribean as the Dodgers expand their presence into the international market.

In light of that, what if Ned had been dealt different cards?   What if Guggs and Company had bought the team two years earlier?   What if?  Well, instead of trading for Hanley Ramirez, the Dodgers could have signed Jose Reyes as a free agent.  Instead of trading for Adrian Gonzalez and having to take Josh Beckett and Carl Crawford, they could have signed Prince Fielder.  Instead of signing Capuano and Harang they might have signed Cliff Lee and Hiroki Kuroda.  Instead of signing Mark Ellis, they might have signed Adrian Beltre and Aaron Hill.

The Dodgers lineup could have looked like this:

  1. Reyes  SS
  2. Hill  2B
  3. Kemp  CF
  4. Fielder  1B
  5. Beltre  3B
  6. Ethier  RF
  7. Pick one   LF
  8. Ellis  C

Rotation:

  1. Kershaw
  2. Lee
  3. Kuroda
  4. Bills
  5. Pick one of the below pitchers.

… and here’s the best part:  Nate Eovaldi, Allen Webster, RDLR, Ethan Martin, Josh Lindblom, JamesLoney, Ivan DeJesus and Jerry Sands would still be Dodgers and could be traded for other parts or kept.

They could have done all that and still been at about the same payroll obligations.

My point is:  Don’t be too hard on Ned.  He was doing the best he could with what he had.   With the cards he was dealt at the time.

To those of you who think Ned is going to be replaced:  Put down the crack pipe and back away slowly!  He is going nowhere.  Kasten likes him.  He likes him a lot!

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

51 Responses to “What if?”

  1. Badger says:

    Yeah what if?

    What if Eli Broad had been allowed to purchase the team in 2004. You know he matched McDope’s bid. That one is on Selig. I remember some guy named Hammond saying he gave McCheesey 3 years before he would have to sell, said he was so underfunded he wouldn’t be able to make payroll. I’ll try to find that article and post it later.

    No McCourt’s could have meant possible titles in the last 8 years.

  2. Mark_Timmons says:

    Maybe he had pix of Bud and the payoff was a cool Billion….

  3. Mark_Timmons says:

    McCourt could have made payroll every time… if he hadn\’t looted the Dodgers. Hammond is an idiot!

  4. Bball says:

    Personally I have never been a Ned hater. Like u said mark he did what he could with the hand he was dealt. You won’t ever hear me talk bad about the man.

  5. Gionfriddo says:

    Kasten likes Ned a lot– I tend to think you are right about that or Colletti would have received his walking papers in the last several months. Who am I to question Kasten’s iron clad record of success. I feel a lot better off knowing Hunsicker, Engle, and Corrales have been brought in to assist in the front office and scouting dept. It’s not a stretch to say that with Kasten and his new hires that 200 million worth of contracts won’t be flushed down the drain (Schmidt, Pierre, Jones, Uribe, Lilly, Blake, etc). Also, I highly doubt a young player such as a Jayson Werth or Joel Hanrahan type will be given their outright release without bringing back even a bag of balls in return or that a franchise catcher will be dealt for a 34 yr old veteran 3B…

    Bottom line, Ned is the official GM of this great franchise but make no mistake from here on out he will be ADVISED by a team of good baseball men (with over 100 years of baseball experience and knowledge) on any future signings or trades..

  6. Anonymous says:

    He likes Ned alot; that’s why he brought in Corrales to be his babysitter

    • Mark_Timmons says:

      So, do you expect us to believe that Stan gave Ned a 3 or 4 year deal and then brings in a babysitter. I guarantee that Ned has the final say on personnel moves.

      Corrales is not his babysitter. Corrales focus will be on Latin Players and international development. The Dodgers had a lot of assistants to the GM already, but were woefully short in the international arena. That\’s what the hires of Engle and Corrales are about.

      • Badger says:

        I think Kasten will be the babysitter. Ned’s record as GM isn’t that great. Kasten has to know that but he also knows maybe the help Jed was getting wasn’t all that. Ned is surrounded with better people now, above him and below him. Perhaps that translates to better deals.

        So, you know the Hammond guy Mark.

        Here’s the article. I wonder if others around here share your opinion:

        http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2004/01/Issue-82/Franchises/Eli-Broad-Offers-To-Buy-Dodgers-If-Mccourts-Deal-Falters.aspx

        “The source: “Eli concluded he couldn’t invest in anything McCourt controlled” (L.A. TIMES, 1/18). In L.A., Steve Dilbeck wondered, “Why would News Corp. want to sell to McCourt, taking back a loan of more than $200[M], when it only would need to make a four-year, $80[M] loan to Broad?” Dilbeck, on Broad: “He’s a local guy with impeccable credentials who has stepped up. It’s what Dodgers fans have been wanting, what the franchise warrants” (L.A. DAILY NEWS, 1/18).”

        “MCCOURT: Also in L.A., Rich Hammond cited a source as saying of McCourt, “I’d give him three years before he has to sell the team. He will either realize he can’t do it, or he just won’t be able to make payroll.” Sports Business Group Principal David Carter, on McCourt: “It’s like a high school kid who convinces his dad to buy him a car. He gets the car, but then he realizes he can’t afford to buy the gas. I think Dodger fans should be concerned that, in this case, they’re going to be the ones buying the gas.” Hammond cited sources as saying that McCourt “has been rejected by several potential partners because of concerns about his finances and because investing in the Dodgers is considered risky business” (L.A. DAILY NEWS, 1/18).”

        Broad was the guy who should have been sold the team. And I think you remember me telling you this back then. And it ain’t clairvoyance, it’s common sense.

        “What if” indeed.

        • ken says:

          With an estimated current net worth of around $5.8 billion, Broad (CPA!) was ranked by Forbes as the 173rd wealthiest person in the world in 2011. http://www.forbes.com/profile/eli-broad/

        • Mark_Timmons says:

          On Hammond:

          Well, he was wrong about how long McCourt would last… and McCourt would still be there if he hadn\’t been a greedy. looting scumbag. Hammond was wrong that he couldn\’t make payroll within 3 years – McCourt was an idiot, but he knew how to build the brand and could have controlled his destiny if he could have only controlled his greed.

          • Badger says:

            Hammond was dead right about the outcome. He was just not right about the time frame.

            “McCourt was an idiot, but he knew how to build the brand and could have controlled his destiny if he could have only controlled his greed.”

            Idiots cannot really control anything, can they? And as far as the brand, I think it survived in spite of him, not because of him.

  7. Gonzo says:

    Let me pull a Timmons and tell you to go back read what I wrote. If you don’t, here it is: “Good baseball men are flanking Ned, so if his head has to roll, their is a short list of possible interm GMs. Don’t get to comfy Ned or anyone in the organization.”

    I never said Ned was getting fired; all I alluded to was if….IF his head were to be chopped down the line Kasten has a safety net in place for the short term. Everyone knows that Ned just signed an extension and it would be stupid on all fronts to get rid of him now. I think that the crack pipe is affecting someone else.

  8. ken says:

    While the dodgers may have had a “large” front office staff when purchased they may not have had the most productive staff. The front office is clearly one of Stan’s concerns, and in my opinion, rightfully so. However, Stan appears to be a patient person and is making many decisions from a long-term perspective without having any preconceived notions. His thoughtful approach to evaluation and change are welcome by me. That is an approach taken in the past by wise (seeking unrealized appreciation), as opposed to greedy (seeking stock options), capitalists.

    It says a lot to me that Stan invested in Ned before he invested in any of the new hires that now work for/with Ned. We do not know what was expressed in the conversations between Ned and Stan during Stan’s due diligence process. Did Ned tell the truth or did he throw McShart under the bus? I would bet real money that Stan will trust but verify anything that he was told.

    Stan is trying to return the dodgers to the Dodgers and I support him completely. He also knows that as a good boss he must both manage and enable Ned in order for Ned to do a great job. In my opinion, Stan is doing a great job enabling Ned. The cream will rise to the top and the sour milk will be discarded.

    • Badger says:

      Makes sense.

      Maybe Ned is more respected in the baseball community than any of us know and will now be given his due opportunity to do what GM’s do. Working for a cockroach like McBillion could not have been easy for him. He did what he thought would work under those circumstances. It’s not like the Dodgers finished last all those years. We were for the most part somewhat competitive. If not for a few bad breaks and tubed fastballs we might have actually gone to a World Series after Manny fell in our laps.

      I think Gonzo is right though. There is a strong team being built in the Dodger offices. If Ned doesn’t soon show what it is he can do, this management team won’t hesitate to cut him loose. They can pick from who they already have and there are probably some young GM genius types out there that would love a shot at building a team in the second largest market in the country.

      As far as I can see, it’s all good for the Dodgers.

  9. Bobbie17 says:

    I believe in quality, not quantity. So far, from the purchase to now, it’s been about quantity. Big money, big staff. I prefer lean and mean. I hope that the salaries they are paying these guys won’t detract from money spent on the team in the future. Apparently, this is a bottomless pit, so it shouldn’t be a problem. WE NEED QUALITY ON AND OFF THE FIELD. Forget quantity.

    • Badger says:

      Lean and mean is one approach. It has been working ok for teams like the A’s and Ray’s.

      I want the Dodger brand to be big and nasty. I want them to fill up stadiums everywhere they go and I want them to be on tv every week, like the damn Yankees, because people demand to see them.

      Is that asking so much?

      • ken says:

        Yes! This month, but there is a possibility that you will receive your wish for XMAS :)

        Does a team need to have a great farm system before they can become lean and mean? Maybe the dodgers can be lean and mean in 2020.

        The dodgers need a quantity of 40 quality players, with 5 quality players on each Minor leaque team and 3 new players graduating to the MLB roster each year from the dodger player development system.

        Troncoso finally let go along with many other free agents. Too bad his arm also got Torrerized by a person who follows the abusive rule of I NEED a Higher Winning Percentage so that I can get into the HOF so you MUST pitch 14 out of 21 days and who cares if you have a dead arm the rest of your life.

  10. Badger says:

    Where is everybody?

    You all in shock or off celebrating?

    “Dan is healthy”. From his agent. Well, there you go.

    Extend Kershaw. Give him whatever he wants now.

    Not much else going on so I am outta here.

  11. Mark_Timmons says:

    On Hammond:

    Well, he was wrong about how long McCourt would last… and McCourt would still be there if he hadn’t been a greedy. looting scumbag. Hammond was wrong that he couldn’t make payroll within 3 years – McCourt was an idiot, but he knew how to build the brand and could have controlled his destiny if he could have only controlled his greed.

  12. ken says:

    What if all of the dodger players had the true grit of this little girl?

    http://www.sbnation.com/videos/2012/11/6/3610950/sam-gordon-is-the-next-internet-sports-superstar

    Glad to hear that Garcia finally was healthy enough to pitch in AFL and pitched a couple of scoreless innings. PS The only dodger pitcher in the AFL with an ERA below 6.75 :(

    Glad that yesterday is over and that no one pulled out the “howling hermaprodite” allegation like Jefferson did to Adams. :) Sandy really messed with the election, being a significant reason for about 12 million less people voting compared to 2008. So far, 9.5 million less for Obama and 2.5 million less for Romney compared to McCain. Time for them all to get to work or no one will have any money to watch baseball on the new dodger Cable TV station in 2014. :)

    • Badger says:

      Geez, the only thing that stopped Gordon from averaging 20 ypc was the goal line.

      I think Garcia is the real deal. Hope his arm stays healthy. Could be the steal of the draft.

      12 million less huh? Well, last time was historic, and the country recognized the problem that having a certain V.P. candidate one old McCain heartbeat away from leading this country was extreme motivation to get out the vote. This time, with a level of disappointment, those 12 million stayed home. That’s my opinion anyway. Time for the Tea Party to start cooperating on some governance. The nation has spoken, again, now, pass some new bills that create jobs.

  13. ken says:

    Mark is now official and sounding as if his approach will be better if not different than Donnie.

    “There’s more to it than seeing it and hitting it, which you do have to do. Mentally, you have to be prepared, and that starts at 2 o’clock in the afternoon, long before we take the field, and then there are adjustments that are made during the game.”

  14. ken says:

    If Mark’s approach does not work during 2013 then the dodgers could always try this approach to hitting :)

    Dodger hitters still waving at crap no where near the strike zone.

    It’s a simple concept really, get a good pitch to hit. First rule of hitting, from Little League on up.

    • Badger says:

      “Dodger hitters still waving at crap no where near the strike zone.

      It’s a simple concept really, get a good pitch to hit. First rule of hitting, from Little League on up.”

      Amen to that. Attack the middle of the strike zone. Your odds of success increase by as much as 35% just doing that alone.

      See the ball hit the ball. It’s simple too, but what does it mean? It means, pick the ball spin up early so you know what kind of pitch it is. As soon as you know that, having seen thousands of pitches by now, you have a pretty good idea of where that pitch is going to end up when it hits the strike zone – which by the way is defined as being over the damn plate.

      “1988 – The Strike Zone is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the top of the knees. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

      1996 – The Strike Zone is expanded on the lower end, moving from the top of the knees to the bottom of the knees.

      In practice, the strike zone is treated as a volume of space delineated by vertical planes extending up from the pentagonal boundaries of the home plate and limited at the top and bottom by upper and lower horizontal planes passing through the horizontal lines of the definition.”

      So, if you are standing behind the plate, at the back end of the batters box, and you have two strikes, you must be prepared to hit something that, by the time it reaches you, could be below back knee.

      But I digress…. the point is, success happens when preparation meets opportunity. As a Major League hitter, you have been preparing for years to get the opportunity to punish a pitch right down the middle of the strike zone. I hate to watch hitters take that tubed get-ahead fastball and this team seemed to do it a lot. I know I have said this before, but it bears repeating, if a pitcher knows you will take strike one, you could get a cookie and watch a pitch you could hit .400 on go right on by. Every hitter out there needs to jump all over that pitch at least once in a game when and if they get it. If they do, they have a better chance of not hitting behind in the count, and if they clobber it, they won’t see it again. We see too many Dodgers chasing that outside slider or that curve in the dirt when behind in the count.

  15. DRomo says:

    I would not extend Kershaw yet. This is the last year of his contract then he has one more year of arbitration. If he stays healthy negotiate after this year. If he doesn’t stay healthy negotioate after 2014.
    Pitchers break. I love Kershaw. I want him to be a Dodger for life. But. Look at Lincecum (probably a bad example) but he “should have been locked” up for life in SF. Now they will likely let him walk after next year especially after another so so year. Kershaw has 2 more years before he can test the market. We have plenty of money if he wants to stay a Dodger. Keeping emotion out of it, what is the rush? We have bigger holes to fill for the next 2 years.

    • Badger says:

      What if Kershaw wants to extend now, and gets pissed the Dodgers are waiting to see if he breaks? Clayton is from Texas. I’ll bet the Rangers wouldn’t hesitate to give him what he wants. Just sayin’…….

  16. Badger says:

    Dbacks must be monitoring our site as they just said they will listen to offers for Upton and Bauer. I saw that kid pitch against the Dodgers this year, he beat Capuano. He reminded me of Lincecum.

    Ethier, Lee and whoever for Upton and Bauer. Ethier is from Arizona and clobbers the ball down there – 3 year splits – .327 .497 .873. Upton is younger, stronger and needs a change of scenery.

  17. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Badger, probably has little chance of happening, but I’d do that deal with the D-Backs without hesitation. Don’t know the size and length of Upton’s current contract, but as you suggested in a previous post, I’d throw in some cash too.

  18. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Just a little follow-up on my last post, and what is probably the source of Badger’s info.

    http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/news/article….

    And the pitch in the video may have been a hanger, but it supports Badger’s characterization of Upton as being “stronger”. And I agree. If anything, he’s got a quicker bat. And he’s younger, and faster to go along with stronger. Better defensively as well, and, if I’m not mistaken, has a stronger arm.

    • Badger says:

      I doubt the dbacks are talking to us. Deals like that within the division are rare.

      His contract is 10-14-14.5. If he can get it together, he will earn that. When he is on, he puts runs on the board and butts in the seats. It would fun to put him and McGwire together.

      As for Bauer, I wonder if they know something. Kid is strange, has his own work-out routine and from what I have read, doesn’t listen well. He finished fine in the minors last year with a combined 12-2 2.46 and 157 K’s in 130 innings between AA and AAA. He has nasty stuff and should be ready to step in now, unless, again, they know something. Maybe they are just tired of his ‘tude. He is from SO Cal and UCLA, so, maybe going back to L.A., to a pitchers park, might be good for him.

      • ken says:

        You know that I know that you wrote that quote about hitting right? :)

        • Badger says:

          Wasn’t even thinking about it to tell you the truth. It ain’t my quote – been around for decades.

          Jed says not going to trade for SP. Going to get one through FA. A 2 or a 3. Greinke at the top of that list. Methinks the Dodgers will overpay him and develop one helluva starting staff.

          Even if they do, I still think we are going to have to hit with ‘em to play with ‘em. (that’s mine) Kershaw is the only guy on that staff capable of truly shutting teams down. Greinke doesn’t. He has only had an ERA under 3 once in his career. 3.48 last year in Anaheim. Should be about the same in L.A.

  19. ken says:

    Stan making good progress reestablishing the dodger brand.

    Good interview yeterday by Ned regarding McGuire

    Nice interview with Jansen on dodger MLB website

    Im ok with Greinke or Sanchez

    • Badger says:

      “Im ok with Greinke or Sanchez”

      Me too. Sanchez will be easier. But from what I read Jed wants the best available, and that is probably considered to be Greinke. Not really sure about that, but believe so.

  20. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    I’d be OK with Greinke AND Sanchez.

  21. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove12/story/_/id/8605165/los-angeles-dodgers-spending-new-york-yankees

    I suspect the above article by Jayson Start is substantially true, and is the reason why the Dodgers have committed so many dollars to turning this franchise around. “That just won’t be any old TV deal…. We’re talking about one of the most humongous local TV deals in the history of any sport–a deal baseball people expect to be so rich that it’s possible just one season of it could pay the entire quarter-billion-dollar tab from that Red Sox blockbuster. Quite a concept.”

    Colletti is reputed to have said “When they came in [i.e., Guggs], they said, ‘Think bold thoughts’. So I think that way now. So if there’s an opportunity right now to make this club better, we take advantage of that opportunity. Do we have financial responsibilities? No doubt. But we also have the ability to make this club better.”

    Everything I read in this article makes me think that the Dodgers have entered this offseason determined to do whatever it takes to build a championship caliber team. And it also sounds as if Ned has been re-energized, and is looking forward to doing whatever has to be done.

  22. Badger says:

    YES!!

    That is exactly what a few of us have been trying to say in here since the sale!!

    It is indeed a new day in Dodger baseball.

    Yankees West? How about Dodgers East.

  23. Ken says:

    18 mil people in greater LA CSA (Combined Statistical Area)
    3 people per household
    6.0 mil cale tv subscriptions
    12 months per year
    72 mil month/subscriptions
    $ 250 mil per year royalty to LAD
    $ 3.47 cost per household paid to LAD
    $3-5 per month additional monthly cable tv fee per rumors

    So, $250 mil per year is reasonable, and only the first $84 mil is subject to revenue sharing so with the extra $166 mil per year NOT subject to revenue sharing the dodgers could pay $55 mil in luxury tax in 2014 and still be whole. :)

    • Badger says:

      If they can add the channel to cable outside L.A. I would buy the channel in a heartbeat. I would even consider going back to Direct T.V. if they get it. I might even consider watching on my computer too.

      I want to see this.

  24. Badger says:

    Anibal Sanchez – 6 years, $15MM per for 196 IP of 1.3 WHIP? Anyone biting on that?

    I would hope if he gets that much he could stretch it out to 213 innings. That’s 32 starts (his career high) and 6.2 per. That would be worth the money. 6 years is a long time though. He might earn it for half that length of time. Might not.

    • Badger says:

      One more thing, with a name like Anibal, wouldn’t he test positive as he soon as he signs his name?

      • Gonzo says:

        Don’t get it. But I’d like to see him in Blue. when he’s on he’s filthy. 4 years for around 55-60 should be ball park for him. While I like Kuroda, he’s not worth giving up a 1st rounder. Grenkie or bust. My fan crush on jurrjens hasn’t subsided and think he’d do well here. Liriano could also be in play since he’s LH.

  25. Badger says:

    In case anyone wants to know, I just checked the Dominican stats and Gordon is doing what he needs to do. .323, 7 SB with an.887 OPS. Yoiks. If he can maintain those numbers, he should come into ST with a job somewhere on that infield.

    Where is everybody. I can hear an echo in here.

    • Badger says:

      oops – sorry Gonzo. I was on the phone a few minutes right before I posted that and didn’t see your post.

      I would take those guys you mention, but I think the real #2′s are Sanchez and Greinke. If all come back healthy and ready to go, we have a lot of starters there already. Somebody will likely be traded.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. [...] What if? Before Guggs and Company took over the Dodgers, I think the Dodgers had one of the largest front office staffs in baseball composed of many former players and high-ranking scouts.  Since then, they have added even more with Engle, Hunsicker and now, Pat Corrales.  Pat is a highly respected former player and manager.  He worked [...]… [...]

  2. [...] The rest of the article can be found here: LADodgerTalk.com – Matt Kemp, Clayton Kershaw, Vin Scully, Andre Ethier and the Dodgers [...]


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