Categorized | Mark Timmons

Ramirez is the Dodgers Shortstop

Ken Gurnick who is an employee of MLB and the Dodgers wrote this:

Hanley Ramirez said he’s willing to play third base, but he wants to play shortstop. So, if the Dodgers want a happy Ramirez, he’ll be the shortstop, even if the defense can be a little rough and it means making Dee Gordon expendable. Gordon’s game-changing speed is enticing atop the batting order, but the .228 average and .280 on-base percentage before his thumb injury indicated that rushing him to the Major Leagues might not have been the best call.

Now, I am not employed by MLB and/or the Dodgers, so here’s the translation (which I have been trying to tell you for quite some time):

Hanley Ramirez will play SS next year!

Ken Gurnick said it best when he said “if the Dodgers want a happy Ramirez, he’ll be the shortstop.” 

Think what you want, but if Hanley moves to 3B, he won’t be happy.  Ken has to weigh what he writes because he travels with the team and is in the clubhouse and on the field every day.  Sometimes you have to have enough wisdom to read between the lines when you are reading what a beat writer says.  I give it to you straight – Hanley will be a problem if he plays 3B. 

End of story.

P.S.  Dee Gordon is trade bait!

Would you trade Dee Gordon, Joc Pederson, Shawn Tolleson and Zach Lee for James Sheilds and David Price?  I would!

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

42 Responses to “Ramirez is the Dodgers Shortstop”

  1. Badger says:

    “Would you trade Dee Gordon, Joc Pederson, Shawn Tolleson and Zach Lee for James Sheilds and David Price? I would!”

    Yep. I would too.

    so…. Ramirez gets his way and we have negative sabermetric fielding numbers across the board at ss. But he’s happy, so that’s good.

    The negative numbers prolly won’t matter much as Gordon wasn’t exactly lighting it up out there. I think it isn’t a stretch to say Gordon will some day be the better fielding shortstop, but today isn’t that day.

    So, yeah, he probably becomes a trade chip. He can go to AAA but he has nothing to prove there. It’s just more OJT, which he actually needs, but he needs it at the ML level. So…. TB makes sense. He can learn the game there. They have more patience with the younger players than does Los Angeles. It’s Tampa Bay. Only a few hundred people show up every night. They are talking 4 million in L.A.. They are talking a cable deal that will draw that many scripts to it. Bright lights, big city.. no place for somebody to learn how to play this game. We want players who already know how to play this game.

    and we will get them too………..

  2. Roger Dodger says:

    So you want to trade Tennessee Ave, Indiana Ave, B & O Railroad, Marvin Gardens, & Mediterranean Ave ====== for ======= Boardwalk and Park Place !!!!

    I think if they give up two starting pitchers, they want 1 major league starter in a package. After all, they have ball games to play come next April.

  3. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    So would I. Maybe Tampa Bay would do it. Maybe not.

    If the Dodgers want to play Hanley at short, I have no problem. And I’d have no problem seeing Gordon moved over to 2B. But if Gordon is on the team, he has to play. Maybe he might be sent down for a while, but a good winter and spring training, and he just might open the season in LA.

    And if the .228/.280 thing is going to be brought up, then it should also be mentioned that when Gordon went on the DL he was leading the league in stolen bases in spite of the his low on base percentage. Imagine what he might do if he could pick up his OBP to .330, or higher. I suspect that Gordon grew up a lot last year, and that we’ll see evidence of it in 2012.

    As for Hanley. I suspect he’s willing to do what’s necessary to win. But I also suspect that being his junior, Dee Gordon would defer to him, and willingly relinquish shortstop. I think that Gordon just wants to play.

    Lots of things can happen between now and the opening of the season, and that includes trades. Maybe Gordon will be traded, maybe Cruz will be traded, maybe Mark Ellis will be traded. In fact, for the right deal just about anyone could probably be traded.

  4. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    You might be right Roger. But if Tampa Bay is trying to unload payroll, then they might not want an established big league player in any deal. Those kinds of guys usually bring along a sizable contract, unless very young, with not too much big league time. And who do the Dodgers have to fit that description?

  5. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Oh, by the way. Joc Pederson is currently hitting .000 in the AFL (0 for 11). It’s a small sample, and he could get hot anytime.

  6. Gionfriddo says:

    The trade Mark proposed– I’d do it RIGHT NOW.. However, it is highly unlikely the Rays will deal BOTH this offseason. Notice I said offseason and both– I believe one will be dealt during the winter meetings and possibly the 2nd will follow by the trade deadline in ’13.

    Shields made 7 mill this year and the Rays have a 10.25 mill option on him that they will exercise this offseason– so, that leads us to Price and his situation..Price avoided arbitration in January by resigning for 4.35 mill. However, this winter Price will be more than happy to go to arbitration after his 20 win season and estimates have him in line to make upwards of 8 to 10 million.

    The penny pinching Rays payroll this year was 63 million– this, coupled with the fact they have 8 legit pitchers who could be in their rotation (Price, Shields, Moore, Hellickson, Cobb, Niemann, Wade Davis, and young stud Chris Archer) and you can see their dilemma with keeping both Shields and Price.

    That being said, I would part with Pederson ONLY if it brought back Price– I would think the Rays would be intrigued by a package of Gordon, Lee, and Pederson for Price.. Kershaw followed by Price would be lethal.. The Rays need a SS in the worst way (former #1 pick over all Tim Beckham has been a big disappointment so far and the remaining options are not the answer- Sean Rodriguez, Reid Brignac, Eliot Johnson) Yes, Zobrist went back to SS for alot of games this year but Maddon likes him in the super utility role.. so for Shields I would go Gordon and Zach Lee… Kershaw followed by Shields would still be nasty ( Shields #’s in ’12– 15-10, 3.52, 223 K’s in 227 inn)..

    As far as Ramirez and the SS vs 3B talk– should we be surprised by any of this.. if any of us have been paying attention we would know that this guy is the poster child for the coddled, spoiled superstar that is common for this generation of ballplayers. How many times in Miami did he get in the doghouse for jogging down the line on groundballs?? Edwin Rodriguez chewed his ass for not hustling on several occasions (right in the dugout I might add) and that is one of the reasons he was jettisoned because he could not “handle” Ramirez.. So, as much as I hate to say this I say you have to have a “happy” and content Ramirez and if SS brings about that, then so be it..

  7. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Regarding Shields, it looks friddo like you added the club option with the buyout. Just checked Cots, and it’s a $9 million club option for 2013, or a $1.5 million buyout. In 2014, it’s a $12 million club option or a $1 million buyout.

    Maybe Ramirez was a “coddled, spoiled superstar” in Miami, but I’m not sure that will fly in LA where he is teammates with several other superstars, namely Matt Kemp, Clayton Kershaw and Adrian Gonzalez. Might even be able to include Beckett in that group, even though he no longer qualifies as a certified superstar. Something tells me that these guys won’t tolerate a prima donna. I also get the feeling that he likes it in LA, and really wants to fit in. Who knows, maybe given his experiences, he’s even matured, at least to a reasonable degree. Besides, playing in LA probably opens financial opportunities that he’d prefer not to jeopardize.

    • Gionfriddo says:

      Brooklyn, I got the Shields’ #’s from the Tampa Tribune and their year end offseason Rays forecast.. Who knows, I tend to side with Cots.. One thing for certain, Tampa will deal those 2 @ some point in the next several months ..

      Trust me, I hope your assessment of Hanley on the superstar laden Dodger roster is true.. We NEED him to be the “old” Hanley — .300, 20 hr 75 RBI 30 sb’s..

  8. Roger Dodger says:

    Let’s try Gordon over M. Ellis at 2B for next season.

    I looked at some figures and find this: last season’s stats–

    M. Ellis: AB 415, hits 107 = .258 average

    Gordon: AB 303, hist 69 = .228 average

    Say that Gordon had an equal of 415 ABs, and averaged his last years .228 average, that would give him about 26 more hits.

    And Brooklyn, I understand the money issues in the trade idea above. What I mean is that Tampa Bay will want at least one pitcher in a trade that can start in the majors. Not just some prospects that might make it someday.

    That would mean that M. Ellis had his 107 hits to Gordon’s 95 hits (with the 415 for both) — or 12 more hits than Gordon.

    Now, over the six months of the season (April – Sept) that is only 2 less hits per month or about 1 less hit every two weeks or so.

    I can live with that.

    Ellis stole 5 bases; Gordon stole 32 (and in a lot less games)

    Ellis is a more mature fielder at 2B, but Gordon might have a bit more range.

    What I am thinking now, with the lineup the Dodger have in the other 7 positions, I can live fine with Gordon playing 2B in 2013 — and either trading M. Ellis or letting him be the sub on the bench if he can handle that at 36.

  9. Badger says:

    I rad that Tampa is ready to move Shields now, while the price is high. I don’t know if that is accurate.

    “After opening the season with a higher-than-planned $64MM payroll, the club is expected to try and scale back the payroll this year, leaving them with limited room.”

    If so, their players will be in high demand. They can get ML ready players. Look for AAA and AA players that are crushing the ball or blowing people away but are blocked at their positions. We might have some ML ready players that would interest them, but I think some of our best are already gone. We don’t really have the hitters, so, it’s going to be Pederson, Gordon and Lee. In my mind Gordon and Pederson is enough for Shields because I think Gordon is a game changer. That kid can steal 70 and score 100 and who does that anymore? Actually, I want to keep him. I am with Brooklyn on that issue, Gordon learns 2b in winter ball, but, I don’t know the Dodgers have the patience.

    I hope you are right about Ramirez Brooklyn. If he wants to win, he is going to have to accept his role. Big fish in small ponds don’t win championships.

  10. Bobbie17 says:

    Those guys for both pitchers is fine. Those guys for only one is a no. Gordon is 4A ,so anything but making him a starter on the Dodgers is ok. Baseball America reported that the Angels dumped 2 scouts. I think that is the level where the greatest change should come from. I heard Katsen say that owing the Dodgers is a dream come true. I hope that that dream has winning in it.

  11. Ken says:

    I want Rameriz at SS because I believe that he can be inspired to improve his abilities during the off season and become a better and happier player.

    I would make that trade but would the Rays?

    Considering their top 10 prospects are
    1 – SS
    2,3,5,7,8,9,10 – Pitchers
    4 & 6 – OFs

    Albeit some of them are more than a year away from MLB.

    Maybe the Rays would want to trade with a team that can offer other minor league players at 1B, 2B, C

    However, if these dodger players could actually start in the MLB in 2013 then maybe because

    SS – .213 in 300 ABs
    #3 OF – .246 in 500 ABs
    Shields is in an option year and at $9 mil that may be too much for the Rays.
    Price’s ARB $$ may be even higher at $10 mil.

    Ned would earn his pay if he could make that trade. But if he can’t then a trade with some other team for 1 starting pitcher certainly looks like a required move during the off season. And Gordon could actually stay in LA and platoon at 2B. What a novel idea. :)

    Certainly with the improvement of the dodger team roster, the good news is roster management becomes a harder job and trading 3 for 1 or 4 for 2 players is both desired for improvement and necessary to not lose players due to the Rule 5 draft. Now if the dodger player development coaches can develop players faster then theses kids would move onto the MLB roster faster or be traded for MLB young vets sooner thus preventing the Rule 5 issues and allowing for a deeper bench. The dodgers could create a nice virtual train between Tampa and LA trading young players for stars that the Rays could no longer afford. However, Ned does not have a very good trading history with the Rays.

    Needless to say, the Hot Stove should be very interesting this year.

  12. Ken says:

    Monday Post Season Report :)

    Braves .308 Gone
    Rangers .265 Gone
    Reds .261 Gone
    Tigers .258
    Cardinals .249
    Nationals .232 Gone
    Yankees .205
    Giants .196
    Orioles .195 Gone
    A’s .194 Gone

    Tigers 1.95
    Braves 2.00 Gone
    Orioles 2.29 Gone
    Yankees 2.38
    A’s 2.89 Gone
    Cardinals 3.05
    Reds 3.13 Gone
    Rangers 4.00 Gone
    Giants 4.42
    Nationals 6.14 Gone

    Instead of a high BA, timely hitting, good fielding, capable umps, and limiting crooked innings seams to be the key to staying in the playoffs. According to the Stats the giants are not long for the playoffs.

    Any player that has ever choked, or gone 0-10, should listen to the news regarding the recent “skydive” by Felix Baumgartner. I can not think of any activity that would make a person feel so helpless as free falling 25 miles, at over 800 mph, getting into a normally fatal spin, and then serviving. Any player that has ever choked should be inspired by Felix. Choking in baseball is not fatal, it can be temporary.

  13. Badger says:

    Anybody, and I mean ANYBODY who has ever played the game of baseball has choked according to your standard. Why does this keep coming up?

    I have been perusing the top prospect lists all morning and, depending on where you are at any given moment, the Rays prospects aren’t all that highly rated. They have a couple, a SS and a pitcher, that show up in the top 100 but they aren’t as stacked as I thought they might be. We have Puig, Pederson and Lee that are showing up all over the place so I suspect they would be very interested in any of those guys. Gordon does not show up as a prospect, because he is a ML player, and the SS the Rays have, Hak Ju-Lee, their top rated prospect, has a game that is similar to Dee’s.

    The Rays could be a trade partner, but they aren’t the only one.

  14. ken says:

    “inspired by Felix” You do not know how to read. Another badger just pissed off because he is addicted to his favorite food and therefore can not understand a positive sentence. How many players in a slump feel helpless to get out of the slump? How many players in a slump need encouragement other than the type that Mark Grace allegedly used?

    Bring it on little weasel.

  15. Badger says:

    Are you bi-polar? Schizophrenic? Or is Ken a different guy than ken?

  16. Roger Dodger says:

    If any of you are watching these post season games . . . are you like me . . . and say, if the 2013 Dodgers (next years team) were playing here and now, just how they would play in these games?

  17. Dave says:

    A Felix Baumgartner reference – I love it! I sat glued to the Discovery Channel Sunday morning watching it. It was nice to see 84 year old Joe Kittinger handling command control with Felix. Since Mark likes to post videos, allow me a little leeway to bring you a video of Joe Kittinger’s jump back in 1960 set to a song inspired by his leap. . .

  18. Badger says:

    Can Felix play 2b or lead-off? Can he pitch 200+ innings of 3.5 ERA?

    Not really watching much of the post-season Roger. Seen some of it, but, I got no horse in this race. Just waiting it out.

    Cano tubing is costly for the Yankees. They need his bat. He’s a choker… right ken? I wonder if they would be willing to move him for a 70 SB second baseman, a B+ outfielder and a B+ starting pitcher? eh, prolly not.

  19. Gonzo says:

    Actually the Dodgers and Rays do have trade history.

    Trades between Los Angeles Dodgers & Tampa Bay Rays

    July 31, 2006: The Tampa Bay Devil Rays traded Julio Lugo to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sergio Pedroza (minors) and Joel Guzman.

    June 27, 2006: The Tampa Bay Devil Rays traded Toby Hall, Mark Hendrickson and cash to the Los Angeles Dodgers for a player to be named later, Dioner Navarro and Jae Weong Seo. The Los Angeles Dodgers sent Justin Ruggiano (July 19, 2006) to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays to complete the trade.

    January 14, 2006: The Tampa Bay Devil Rays traded Danys Baez and Lance Carter to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Chuck Tiffany (minors) and Edwin Jackson.

    April 3, 2004: The Tampa Bay Devil Rays traded Antonio Perez to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Jason Romano.

  20. Badger says:

    Justin Hampson hits free agency!!

    Who is Justin Hampson?

    Man, if your team isn’t in the play-offs, this is really a slllooow time of year.

    Where is everybody? ken is probably tuning up his next meles meles post, Mark is selling water systems, Brooklyn is educating, friddo is munching on some garlic bread….I’m remodeling a kitchen…… going to the movies…. who cares………

    say – friddo…… any relation to Al?

  21. Gonzo says:

    baseball reference has this really nice search engine to see the trade history between teams from all time.

  22. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Actually, I need to be educated.

    Doesn’t look like the Dodgers got back very much in their deals with Tampa Bay. And apparently didn’t give up very much either, i.e., unless you consider the 30 year old Justin Ruggiano a loss. I don’t.

    Starting to think that Ken ken has a badger fetish. Or maybe just a bad case of badger on the brain.

    Been working all day. Time to for dinner. I’ll probably CHOKE on it.

  23. Gionfriddo says:

    Badger, although I’m of Italian descent, I’m not related to the late, great Al Gionfriddo. However, after his playing days were over, Gionfriddo resided in my hometown for several years and became very close with my grandfather (us wops stick together)..

    Come on St. Louis, I won’t be able to take the Giants in the fall classic yet again… Also, enough of the networks (MLB & ESPN)showing the Holliday slide on Scutaro and debating if it was bush league or not. Anybody remember Hal McRae knocking Willie Randolph into short LF on more than one occasion in the 70′s while breaking up DP’s?? that’s just good, clean, baseball, period….

    • Badger says:

      It was an aggressive slide, but, in my opinion, as a former shortstop and umpire, it was borderline. On a play like that, I would just tell the guy I’ll be watching and next time he better start his slide earlier. He was in the basepath and he did contact the bag, but he obviously was going after the player. Not cool. Not sportsman like. Legal? eh, yeah I guess so. At least the umps there must have thought so cuz they didn’t do, or say, a thing. And I do remember the play you refer to. That one was ridiculous.

      Al lived in your hometown? Cool. Roger Maris lived in mine when I was a kid. He used to fish on the lake I lived next to. I probably already told you guys that.

      Brooklyn, responding to kenKen ain’t worth the trouble. Somethin’ not right with that guy.

      • Ken says:

        Meles meles

        Here we go again

        You do know what SBF means right? No words in the English language describes you better than your handle.

        You started a fight that will never stop until you do.

  24. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Thanks for the wake up call. Moment of weakness I guess. Moment when something probably wasn’t right with me. Good to have those moments though, if only to shock me back to my senses (little that I have left).

  25. Ken says:

    LA Dodger AFL Stars

    2005 Kemp, Ethier
    2004 Loney
    2002 Victorino – Lost Rule 5
    1996 Kornerko – Traded
    1995 Park
    1993 Hollingsworth
    1992 Piazza

    Via Trade
    2003 Gonzalez
    2001 Crawford, Hudson
    1999 Bradley & Penny
    1998 Drew
    1994 Nomar & Grudzelanek
    1993 Green & Johnson

    Looking for better drafting and player development by Stan’s staff within 5 years

  26. Badger says:

    We didn’t draft Ethier.

    I think we are all looking forward to the organization improving, top to bottom. I believe the general consensus is, the best organizations in baseball are the Yankees, Cardinals, Red Sox, Braves and Phillies. We SHOULD be in that group, but are not because of horsesh*t ownership since the O’Malley’s sold out.

    But the organization itself isn’t in as bad of shape as some think. We aren’t at the top of course, in the NL West everyone’s minor league system but the Giants are way in front of us, but with Lee, Puig, Gordon, Pederson, Reed and Saeger all having ML potential, and the money not only to buy free agents but to develop locally and internationally now available, we should be able to make a comeback quickly.

  27. SpokaneBob says:

    Going back to the dissussion on Dee Gordon. Mark Ellis is signed for one more year. I think the best course would be for Dee to play 2nd over the winter and platoon with Ellis next year. I feel that Cruz has the cofidence to continue his play and I want to keep Gordon unless a trade can make us a better team. I also would like Gordon leading off and Crawford in the two spot.

    Could we maximize Ethier by hitting him 3rd in front of Kemp and Gonzales aginst righthanders?

  28. Roger Dodger says:

    Agree with you Spoke Bob, but there are rumors out there that the Yankees might give A-Rod to the Dodgers so they can move on. And A-Rod might be a nice fit for the Dodgers as a 3B for a year or so, also at DH time, and post-season.

    But, as I said the other day, Gordon needs to play at second base now, trade Ellis if possible, not sure he would ride the bench.

  29. Ken says:

    Nice to see 3 of the 4 Carribean Winter Leagues have started.

    4 Dodgers on the Tigres de Licey

    3 SS and 3 2B. Hope Gordon gets some playing time.

    Hoping that Pederson gets a hit in AFL this off season. Wow. Maybe the dodgers need to send Johhny Washington to AZ. Go Ynoa and Patterson!

  30. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Roger, I find it hard to see that “A-Rod might be a nice fit for the Dodgers as a 3B for a year or so, also at DH time, and post-season.” A-Rod will turn 38 in July, and is owed a fortune for several more years. Even if the Yankees pick up a large chunk of that, I can’t see how it would be worth it to the Dodgers, even with the expanded inter-league play that starts in 2013. This is no longer the A-Rod of years past, and, if anything, he’s likely to become less viable as a player. As for the rumors, they appear to be nothing more than the musings of a Boston sportswriter who needed to fill some space.

    Besides, I think with their resources, the Dodgers can seek out younger players with large contracts that they can take off the hands of teams that would like to jettison those players as a means of freeing themselves of burdensome salaries.

    As for the Dodger organization, I see it as being in very good shape. The system may not be loaded, but it’s also not bereft of talent. There are still some good arms, and at least some outfield talent. And we don’t know who might emerge from this past summer’s international signings or draft, or what young players from the Dominican Summer League might suddenly come to our attention. And going forward, it looks like management is serious about re-stocking the farm system from top to bottom.

    And for the time being, where the farm system is still unable to provide players, the resources exist to acquire it via free agency and/or trades.

    There’s more to do, but it appears as if the Dodgers are finally pointed in the right direction.

  31. SpokaneBob says:


  32. Roger Dodger says:

    Brooklyn, that is why this is the beginning of the Hot Stove season for baseball.

    Just putting stuff out there, measuring ideas, kicking cans, medical reports on players, agents giving their 2 cents, and winter league ball games.

    I do not know if A-Rod would have anything left come next April, and if so, how long it would last. But he is a crowd drawer, and ownership might take a quick look at it.

    Personally, I am tired of some of the bench role players the Dodgers have used over the past several seasons. Now, they should be able to entice and trade for or sign — better quality — to build a nice 25 man roster.

  33. Badger says:

    I guess part of the reason Brooklyn’s posts make so much sense to me is that he says the same thing I do, but much more eloquently.

    Seems to me most people knew that ARod contract was insane and that eventually he would outgrow it. And it would appear he has. Why should anyone but the Yankees be stuck with that baggage? They bought it, they own it. I say hell no to ARod. That is not the Dodgers new model. The new model is a ceiling of age 30.

    Go Cards. Even though I do love the city of San Francisco (just spent 3 days in Sausalito…. what a great place) and the state of Missouri frightens me. (my step-dad grew up on a farm outside St. Louis, I lived in Raytown as a kid and it was great. However, as an adult having finished growing up in Southern California….I now find Missouri an odd place with…… different people. Family reunions back there are…. strange. I got some distant step-cousins right of Deliverance). Any team that is playing the midgets is the team I am pulling for.

  34. Badger says:

    In order of your preference… choose from this group:


  35. Bill Russell says:

    Hell No to A Rod. The Yankme’s own that mistake. If we could get one or two pitchers from the list above, we should be in good shape until the trading deadline next year. I’m already counting the days until I can get Camelback tickets in 2013. Lets get this thing started again. I just can’t decide between who I want to face the Tigers in the Series. My two worst NL teams are the only ones left. If I’m forced to choose I have to go with the Giants. I can’t believe I just said that. Let’s go Tigers.

  36. Badger says:

    Tiogers vs. Cards. I just can’t root for the Yankme’s or the gints.

    From that list… in order of preference….

    Greinke (free agent and still in his prime) This is the guy at the top of my list.

    Dan Haren (free agent, is 32 and should bounce back)

    Kuroda – (he is ancient but doesn’t seem to bother him… will he accept another one year?)

    Josh Johnson or James Shields. Either one, but will require a heavy load of prospects. Somebody will overbid for each of them, no doubt. We may be more in the market for the free agents, and the Dodgers have already said “pitchers break” so they likely won’t be interested in a long term deal for anyone over the age of 30.

  37. Roger Dodger says:

    Here is a list; any you want from here?

    Starters . . . role players . . .

    Also, with A-Rod, I believe that he wants several rooms at the stadium for personal office space. That is a no-no right there.


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