Categorized | Mark Timmons

Cheaters and Liars

Cheaters and Liars

Manny Ramirez is gone from baseball.  Rather than submit to discipline for an evidently failed drug test, he retired.  Don’t let the doorknob hit you on the way out. I was against  Manny from the get go.  I was against trading for him.   I was against re-signing him.  I was not happy about it.  I didn’t know about his drug use, but I knew about his character, and I said “I rather lose without him, than win with him.“  I meant it.

Now, you might say “well look what he did for the Dodgers in 2008!“  But, I will ask, who else might the Dodgers have signed if they hadn’t spend $45 mil on Manny?  It’s a worthy question – but, one that has no answer.  Manny Ramirez was Dope For the Dodgers!  They inhaled … deeply, and the fans were hooked.  But, just like crack or methamphetamine, the high was short-lived.  Was the “going up worth the coming down?”   I still say no.  The 2010 crash of the Dodgers was as much about the money spent on Manny, Jones and Pierre as anything.  The Dodgers need to do better. Ned needs to do better.

Even Ray Charles could see that Bury Bonds was a cheater. As I write this, the jury will decide if he is a Liar!  The judge excluded so much damning evidence from the jury that I put the odds at less than 50-50.  We should find out soon.

Let’s play ball – I am done with the cheaters and liars. I hope Bonds is convicted so that he sill never see the Hall-of-Fame (I doubt he will anyway, but a conviction cinches it).   It’s too bad we can’t convict Manny as well.

Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish.

Let’s Play Ball!

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

19 Responses to “Cheaters and Liars”

  1. Badger says:

    “I am done with the cheaters and liars.”

    So, you are done with Frank McCourt?

    I do, in general agree with you on this. I hate cheaters too. I really hate Manny was dumb enough to get caught. Hey, I admit it.

    I know you like to give McCourt credit for getting the Dodgers deep into the play-offs. A strong argument could be made that without Manny the Dodgers do not go to the NLCS. Bummer he turned out to be a cheater. I think the real bummer is, unlike Bonds, who cheated his way to a couple of records and a WS appearance, Manny was stopped mid-season. Nobody cares if YOUR guy is doing roids as long as he doesn’t get caught. People care when their guy gets caught.

  2. the truth hurts says:

    mark, i could not disagree with you more.

    i find this very sad, it is very sad because manny got caught and then got caught again (one of the very unlucky MANY), should the truth come out on all the cheaters and liars in baseball, it would be very depressing for all fans and i think all the fingers would stop pointing at manny/bonds/mcguire/etc.

    what manny did this for this team drugs or no drugs was something I have never seen before in all my 38 years of watching dodger baseball. i have said it before and will say it again, i have never been so proud to be a dodger fan then when he shook the ground beneath dodger stadium. Because of manny, the dodgers were finally RESPECTED by the media and rivals and TALKED ABOUT like the world series was a step away. He made EVERYONE better and me as a fan, proub/happy/excited. So he got caught! I wish everyone did!

    This is what Steve Dilbeck wrote in the LATIMES:

    “When he first arrived from the heavens free of charge from the Red Sox in 2008, he was absolutely incredible. Cast away by Boston, he was relaxed and outgoing. He immediately changed the entire culture of the Dodgers’ clubhouse. And in my 30 years of being around the Dodgers, I have never seen a position player so electrify a stadium. Every at-bat was an edge-of-your-seat happening.

    The Dodgers don’t go to the National League Championship Series in consecutive years without him”

    I will also say, THE DODGERS DO NOT GO TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES CONSECUTIVE YEARS WITHOUT HIM.

    Those two years meant so much to me as a dodger fan and nothing will ever change my opinion. I was a fan of getting manny, a bigger fan with manny and now sad to see his career end like this.

    What did he have to lose by doing it again? Nothing because he had already lost it all.

  3. ray guilfoyle says:

    here is where i disagree with Mark. It might be a first.

    I think the players who “cheated” are taking advantage of a system that MLB looked the other way at for years. From Selig all the way down to the players….everyone knew what was going on and chose to look the other way.
    The baseball writers who vote for the HOF will not vote for Manny or Bonds, but these two guys were the best hitters in their generation. No one has scientifically proven that steroids help a hitter hit a little round ball travelling at 95 miles an hour from 60 feet 6 inches.
    Everyone chooses to talk about this as it is an issue which MLB is trying to rid itself of. But they allowed it for so many years. Back in the 50s and 60s players were using amphetamines to help them get through a 154 and 162 game schedule until they weren;t allowed anymore. So MLB players moved onto something else to get them through the long season.
    Getting back to these writers who vote, they are the same guys who were praising Bonds, Sosa, Manny and Clemens as they were baseball’s biggest stars, and now because they used a substance that MLB allowed them to take, they are turning their backs on these guys. The players, hitters and pitchers, used steroids. Let;s just call it the “steroids era” and move on. Just like the “dead ball” era, and the era with the higher pitchers mounds. Baseball changed the height of the mounds so they can bring back the fans in baseball. Who wants to go to a game that ended 2-1 or 1-0?
    Just my two cents. Hey, even Bob Gibson said he would have taken steroids if he was in baseball during that era. Baseball TEAMS steal signs, and do all sorts of things to get an edge, to win a baseball game. The players were just doing the same thing.

  4. Jae says:

    The same kind of people who like Barry Bonds will also like Manny Ramirez. I don’t disagree or agree with Mark or the Truth. They have different points of view. Who is right? Probably neither one.

  5. Roger Dodger says:

    Ray, i agree with you. Each time has its uniqueness. The dead ball era, the Ruth years, the W.W.II era when most of the best players went into the war — and baseball played with many lesser players (quality wise). And so on . . .

    Clemens will be up this summer.

    Hind sight, these guys should have probably done what A-Rod and a few others have done — admit the usage, ask for forgiveness, and move on. This denial stuff (if they are guilty) will only hang on to them and baseball that much longer.

    And if Manny did use more stuff after the Dodger 50 game suspension — that was dumb. If he knew he was through, he should have taken his millions and retired over the winter and called it a career.

    I also agree with the truth hurts (above) — Manny brought excitement to the Dodgers that few players have ever accomplished. I think of Jackie, Duke, Campy, Maury, Sandy, Fernando, Gibson, Gagne . . . Manny made it exciting for awhile. But then he disappointed us and wore out his welcome.

  6. DodgerDude says:

    If Manny was the Dope, so are we for rooting for him. Wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong. Just because lots of others were doing it doesn’t make it right. I felt the excitement too, Dudes, but it was all built on falsehoods. And let’s not forget the beat down of the 60 something year old man when he was with the Bo Sox. The Dude ain’t about the right thing… you know it!

  7. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Who would the Dodgers have signed if they hadn’t spent $45 million on Manny? Maybe not anybody. With as much as he made, how much money did Manny generate in ticket sales, merchandise sales, sponsorship money and let’s not forget, playoff sales?

    And no matter how bad his character, if he was drug free and generating victories for the Dodgers, he would have been worth every penny. And if anything, he provided an example of what star power can do in LA to enhance revenues. If anything, he should serve as an example as to why the Dodgers should be spending more money NOW to bring in the pieces needed to generate a winner.

    If Manny’s production in 2008 was the result of drug use, and if his subsequent fall was the result of him having to abandon drugs, then it is very likely that a drug free Manny would never have generated the productivity we saw in 2008, and consequently he would never have been signed to the lucrative deal he got with the Dodgers. And if Manny’s production had been drug free, he would have been worth every cent he was paid, and likely would have been productive through last season, and maybe even into this one.

    So Mark, if you were against his signing after 2008 because of character issues, then you would only be correct if you had predicted that his faulty character would lead to his being caught for drug use. There is every reason to believe that a drug free Manny would have been worth every cent, character issues or not. In fact, his character issues with the Dodgers only came to light subsequent to his being exposed for drug use, not before. Fact is, prior to being busted for drugs, Manny was being regularly praised for his work ethic.

    Based on what was known when Manny was signed after 2008, the signing was a good one. It only became bad when the real truth was revealed by way of 20-20 hindsight.

  8. Anonymous says:

    If we were all as smart as you Mark and had these powers that could see into a persons character and be so righteous that we felt we could judge people or wish ill will upon them then…., but Thank God we’re not.

  9. ray guilfoyle says:

    this from Kevin Goldstein, from Baseball Prospectus, via twitter:

    I’ve never seen a hitter who could let the ball travel deeper into the zone than Manny. I have no idea how PEDs could help with that.
    about 4 hours ago via Twitter for iPad

  10. Bill Russell says:

    I inhaled along with many others. When Manny came to LA he brought excitement to the park. Excitement that had been missing for a very long time. I say Mark inhaled also even if he wants to be Bill Clinton on this subject. I remember Mark talking about Manny’s work ethic.

    Larry Bowa claimed that Manny was never the same after returning from the 50 game suspension in 2009. He also stated that Manny turned his back on his teamates after returning from that suspension. I don’t agree with what he did in Boston that required Boston to trade him away at a very costly price at the trade deadline. Many are saying that he’ll never make the Hall of Fame because of the second offense and the way he walked away from the game. Kevin Millar stated that Manny let him into his little circle in Boston and that he was a little brother to him. He stated that Manny mentally was about 13 years old and that they would go get ice cream. He also stated that his work ethic was better than anyone in the game and that he would study film for hours before heading out to the cages to hit. We will never know if Manny could have done what he did on his own without PED’s or if he used his entire career. But what we do know is that he was a hard worker and that he brought excitement to the Dodgers when they needed it. I don’t know that I will throw him under the bus but I’m disappointed at the way he walked away from the game.

    • Mark_Timmons says:

      Billy,

      I rooted for Manny because he was a Dodger. I was elated when he carried the team, but I wrote this one December 23, 2008:

      “As you know, I really don’t want Manny Ramirez back. I agree that he’s a great player, but I believe that character issues will rear their ugly head.”

      You can find it here:

      http://www.ladodgertalk.com/2008/12/the-key-to-ou

      I rooted for him because he was on the Dodgers, but I didn’t inhale! ;)

  11. Bill Russell says:

    Because Manny is not eligible to play MLB, will the Dodgers find a loophole to not pay the balance of the money they owe him?

    • Mark_Timmons says:

      Billy,

      I would say that since the compensation was for services performed in the past, they still owe him.

  12. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    It’s early, and things could change. But I’m beginning to understand why Juan Uribe has such a low career OBP. It looks like he’s trying to hit everything out of the ballpark, and that he has no clue where the strike zone is. And Loney still appears to be carrying over some of the bad habits he picked up last year, swinging and missing pitches nowhere near the strike zone. Hopefully things will change, but as of now I’m not happy with the strike zone discipline of this team in general, not just Uribe and Loney.

  13. Badger says:

    “Hopefully things will change”

    Don’t count on it. Uribe will connect now and then, but his career OBP is .299. We all knew that when he was signed. Loney will likely do what he always does. So will Ethier – .290 with a .360 OBP. Kemp is the only guy who looks like he could be a real threat. And frankly it would not surprise me to see pitchers find that hole in his swing. So far so good. He is not chasing those low and away breaking pitches.

    This will be the mediocre offensive team some of us said it would be. Hopefully, the pitching keeps us close in games.

  14. Badger says:

    One final post on Manny and I will be done with the sugject.

    This guy sums it up better than anyone I have read:

    http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/04/retirement-of-mannybmanny.html

    The only thing I don’t agree with is his take on Manny’s work ethic. Manny made it look easy, and he was undeniably gifted, but, he did work at his trade.

  15. DodgerDude says:

    This was written by Curt Schilling:

    “No, by saying PLAY I mean exactly that. The issue got to the point where everyone finally took him at his word, there was no choice. A guy refusing to get on a team plane, having to be literally coaxed on, by people with pride and people that love the game, because meeting the obligations of a 20 million dollar contract were not even close to enough to get him going???? If he did not get traded he was going to need “time off” to rest his injured knee, and it got to the point where he made it clear time off could mean the rest of the season.

    So it’s not ‘what could have been’, we knew what was to be, and what was to be was that if he did not get a contract extension he was going to take a seat, and in taking that seat he didn’t give a rats ass what anyone thought, including the 24 guys that wore the same uniform. So the ‘what could have been’ in the post season is not the question. The question is would there have been a post season if he had stayed, and that’s a question, and a gamble, that I think everyone felt they knew the answer too and in the end a gamble no one was willing to take, and rightly so.

    It is demeaning and disrespectful to the guys that did respect their teammates, the game and the fans by busting their asses through broken down hips, sore arms, strained abs and whatever, to grind it out for each other and the fans, their love of the game and anything else you can think of, the organization, to hear people question the hows and whys of this whole thing. That was why I said ‘he flipped you all off’ because if you heard ANYTHING he said after he left, he did.

    But the thing that killed me in the end was this; he never gave a rats ass about any of us that suited up with him, not one iota. He was, and he said repeatedly, about going to the highest bidder and getting as much money as he possibly could, period. If that meant pissing on us in the interim, so be it.”

Trackbacks/Pingbacks


Leave a Reply

Mandatory Daily Dodger Reading