Categorized | Mark Timmons

Rants & Raves

Rants & Raves
  • For those of you who think Jon Broxton has no trade value:  Look at the 2 year/$12 million dollar deal Bobby Jenks signed with the RedSox and then compare their stats.
  • I predict that Juan Uribe will pull a “Jamey Carroll” next season. That simply means that his actual value in 2011 will be dramatically more than people estimated when he was signed.  I’m not saying he’ll be the MVP or an All-Star – I’m just saying that he will end up being a real asset for the Dodgers, stats be damned!
  • James Loney needs to be on a mission next year and it had better start this off-season.   ” James, If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you always got.”
  • The more I think about it, the more I like the Dodgers options:  Gwynn as a part-time CF, Uribe at 3B, SS and 2B, DeJesus at 2B and Blake/Gibbons in LF.  It smacks of the 2010 Giants!
  • What are the odds Navarro becomes the Dodgers starting catcher?
  • I am telling you:  It’s too quiet.  Ned is up to something!
  • Who will be the surprise of the spring?  Will someone make the team who was not expected to do so?  Here’s some options, who do you think it will be?
      • Rubby DeLaRosa
      • Josh Lindblom
      • Trayvon Robinson
      • Jerry Sands
      • Russ Mitchell
      • AJ Ellis
      • Ivan De Jesus, Jr.

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

71 Responses to “Rants & Raves”

  1. Badger says:

    Lunes – Viernes. Great idea Mark. No wonder you are in the upper 2%.

    I think Uribe will help this team in ways other than just hitting .248 with a .300 OBP. He will bring a toughness the Dodgers lack.

    2010 gints? Doubt it. Those guys were a once every 25 year phenomenon.

    Navarro the starter? Yeah, sure, why not.

    Ned is certainly working the phones. I am still interested in that Michael Morse idea. He could have real potential and, he makes good movies too.

    Out of those names, I’ll put my money on Rubby. (Is that pronounced Rubby or Ruby?)

  2. Ray says:

    I vote for Sands….we need a RH power hitter and LF is a good spot for him till Loney is traded/non-tendered in 2012. I don’t beleive Loney will develop the power Logan has talked about. I hope he proves me wrong.

    Re: Ned….I am waiting for the day that the Dodgers sign Beltre to a 4 yr-$56mm deal…..

    • Badger says:

      You think Sands is ready? Maybe. He only has 300 ab’s at AA. If he does again this year what he did last year (.270 .529 slg.%) he may be the guy. I like Rubby’s numbers. He is blowing people away. We will likely be about pitching.

      $14 mil a year is too much for Beltre. He will put up his Seattle (career average) numbers here. As great a year as he had last year, he only knocked in 102 (in that lineup?) and only scored 84. Is that worth $14 million to a cash strapped Dodger organization?

      It might be just to increase ticket sales.

      • Ray says:

        Seattle numbers aren’t that bad considering he was hurt in 2009. Its better than most of the Dodgers lineup in 2010….I’ll take that with the great D….sure. Need good D behind a good pitching staff.

        • Badger says:

          In Seattle, not counting his injured year, he averaged around .266 with 88 ribbies and a .320 OBP. If we are going to pay a multi-year $14 million per to somebody, we need more than that.

          And if you want good defense, we have Juan Castro.

          • Ray says:

            he averaged something like 25 HR-88 RBIs and a .270ish BA…..I’ll take that with gold glove D…..HOW MANY 3Bman do that on an annual basis?

          • Dusto says:

            But Juan Castro is 39… this seems like real sarcasm. A guy who can’t hit and hasn’t been a good fielder for 5 years is going to be our starting 3B-man. And I mean, REALLY CAN”T HIT! They guy hasn’t been a 3/4 average hitter at any point in time in his career. EVER. Career OPS+ of 55!!! (I wish I could emblden that!) He hasn’t been a good defender since 2006.

  3. Ray says:

    The Pope and Nancy Pelosi are on the same stage in Yankee Stadium in front of a huge crowd.

    The Pope leans towards Mrs. Pelosi and said, “Do you know that with one little wave of my hand I can make every person in this crowd go wild with joy? This joy will not be a momentary display, but will go deep into their hearts and they’ll forever speak of this day and rejoice!”

    Pelosi replied, “I seriously doubt that; with one little wave of your hand? Show me!”

    So the Pope backhanded her and knocked her off the stage!

    AND THE CROWD ROARED & CHEERED WILDLY!

    Kind of brings a tear to your eyes, doesn’t it?

  4. Ken says:

    No Bull today?

    Having lots of players who can play lots of positions can lead to great team chemistry or intense jealousy. 2011 is now officially on Mattingly’s shoulders.

    Badger – Thank you for the virtual nomination. Since you are the only person who gets my humor I thank you from the top of my heart.

    Ned is busy with the beancounters running Monte Carlo simulations regarding the possible outcomes of the current 40 man roster in 2011 and the possible team standings improvement if they sign just one more player with an OBP of between .300 and .305 for $5 mil plus incentives, or just one more staring pitcher, or just one more 35 year old relief pitcher, or just Juan Castro.

    I am for trading Broxton for the sole reason that there is currently limited payroll flexibility and the high probability is that only by trading Broxton will the Dodgers have the salary room to add a player in July.

  5. Badger says:

    Shall we start with W jokes ray?

    Maybe not a good idea, it would take a week just to scratch the surface of his laughers.

    Top of your heart huh Ken? Is that cuz your heart has no bottom?

    Broxton. I have mixed feelings. If he is healed from being Torried, we could use him. If he is healed, he would get us more at the deadline in July. If he isn’t healed….. well, you know teams will be giving him a full examination. I’ll bet those teams with good doctors and great pitching coaches would line up to have a shot at him. It’s my guess we keep him because I think the 2011 Dodgers are going to be all about pitching. Looking at our starting lineup, I would say we had better be all about pitching. Ned is keeping a close eye on season ticket sales. He knows that with one signing (Beltre) those numbers will improve. He also knows that without season ticket sales already up there…..

  6. Glass Is Half Full says:

    Right on Ray!

  7. W's ghost says:

    Ray, my man. You sure showed that Fox News is successful after all. They taught you how to hate the enemy, makes jokes about the enemy. And you do. Good student. Hate the enemy, make fun of them. Good boy Ray, my man.

  8. Dusto says:

    “For those of you who think Jon Broxton has no trade value: Look at the 2 year/$12 million dollar deal Bobby Jenks signed with the RedSox and then compare their stats.” (what about the stats be damned thing?)

    I predict that Juan Uribe will pull a “Jamey Carroll” next season. That simply means that his actual value in 2011 will be dramatically more than people estimated when he was signed… stats be damned! (Uribes value comes from his glove. He will be league average offensively and have great glove numbers. Statistically Carroll is a better batter though. “Timmons be damned”).

    James Loney needs to be on a mission next year and it had better start this off-season. ” James, If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you always got.” (This is a three year trend. He obviously needs to be more and I dont doubt that he can, but his more isn’t “ENOUGH”.)

    The more I think about it, the more I like the Dodgers options: Gwynn as a part-time CF, Uribe at 3B, SS and 2B, DeJesus at 2B and Blake/Gibbons in LF. It smacks of the 2010 Giants! (And them winning anything more than 90 games last year was a fluke! Making the playoffs was plain luck and winning the world series, aside from making me sick, was also extremely lucky! Using their mold at building a team isn’t the preferred option here.)

    I am telling you: It’s too quiet. Ned is up to something! (This speaks of douchebaggary! I don’t like it when Ned is “up to something”. I wish he’d just stop already while he is still only slightly behind. He better watch out for the Bull because Ned is a good looking “heifer”.)

  9. Bill Russell says:

    Prediction

    Don Mattingley plays 1st, Loney and Broxton is traded for a LFer.

    I bet Ned is up to something. The sound of silence………is deafening

  10. Badger says:

    “he averaged something like 25 HR-88 RBIs and a .270ish BA…..I’ll take that with gold glove D…..HOW MANY 3Bman do that on an annual basis?”

    You might want to read up a bit before you make claims like that.

    Beltre has 2 Gold Gloves in 11 years, and his fldg. % was way down the years he won that award – .958 and .964. That’s bad. And as for the .270 BA with 88 ribbies – how many 3rd baseman do that? Quite a few actually. For his career, Beltre has averaged 25 home runs and 89 RBI’s for every 162 games. He won’t play 162 games, so, those numbers will be down a bit. Depending on where he goes, I’d say he gets 25 and 85, with his usual .328 OBP and .780 OPS. He goes to a good club, like the Rangers, he could improve on that. He comes to L.A., he may not get his career averages.

    • Dusto says:

      Yes, because fielding percentage is a reliable stat. We all know that when Beltre’s career is done he may be considered the BEST DEFENSIVE THIRD BASEMAN EVER!

      If your going to use Gold Gloves as the “necessity of quality”, then why not call up the BCS to manage all of your personal finances and see how that works out for you. Decision making and statistical understanding are certainly not one of your strong points.

      Remember that last years team was so bad offensively that Beltres average season would be the best on the team. If you want to argue that value of the player, first look at the actual “value” of the player.

      By all accounts Beltre is a 3.5-4 WAR player over the last 5 years. If the going rate is 5 million/ WAR then Beltres “value” is between 17.5 and 20 million annually.

      Lets not forget that Colletti is paying Garland, Lilly, and Kuroda equal to their WAR. Meaning Garland is projected at 1.5 WAR, Lilly about 2.5 and Kuroda maybe 3 WAR and Colletti is paying them as such. If Beltre is projected at 4 WAR then Colletti would likely pay Beltre 20 million. And all Beltre is asking for is 15-17? The guy is worth every penny!

      • Ray says:

        agreed Dusto….Beltre is worth the money…..Like KGB said in Rounders….”pay the man his money!!!

        • Dusto says:

          I get the feeling that this is the place that the AARP group comes to complain about new fangled statistics like xfip and WAR.

          Where the majority of the “older community” can unjustly discriminate players of race while buffering the whites.

          • Badger says:

            Yes, I am member of AARP and I retired at age 54. Let’s see if you can do as well.

            Why the disrespect for your elders kid? And why the attempt at saying those of us who disagree with you may be racists? That’s just ignorant.

            And something else you said below, about “evidense” – I always read up on stats to support my argument. You are the one who comes in with subjective opinions “David Wright is the worst fielding third baseman in all of baseball” – really? And you have seen them all? Ever watch Edwin Encarnacion or Michael Young butcher play after play. How about Pablo Sandoval? He can barely bend over down there. There are plenty of poor fielders around the league. David Wright is average.

            You don’t know everything kid. In fact, you have a lot to learn.

    • Ray says:

      Gold Gloves don’t go to the best fielders….it’s a popularity contest…..see Derek Jeter in 2010….he’s a statue at SS.

      Re: Texas vs LAD….Texas plays in a hitters park….LA-not so much….Seattle-not so much and he STILL averaged 25-88….I’ll take that.

  11. Badger says:

    A fielding % of .958 isn’t good no matter what position you are playing.

    “We all know that when Beltre’s career is done he may be considered the BEST DEFENSIVE THIRD BASEMAN EVER!”

    Is that what is known as sarcasm? If so, good one.

    $5 million per WAR? Really? Who came up with that? That means Evan Longoria is worth $33.5 million a year. Good luck negotiating that deal. The ranges of WAR analysis are defined as 8+ MVP, 5+ All-Star, 2+ Starter, and 0-2 Reserve. Beltre isn’t even an All Star, let alone the best fielding third baseman of all time and a franchise saver. And without looking, I would say there are probably 6-10 third baseman with higher WAR’s than Beltre.

    And personally I have a slight problem with this whole WAR thing.

    Ray, you are the one who brought up Gold Glove as if it were important. Now it’s just a popularity contest. The bottom line is, you think Beltre is worth $14 million a year until he is 35, I don’t. His best years could very quickly get behind him. And I predict he will never see last year’s numbers again.

    • Dusto says:

      I like that I can make a claim and back it up with statistical evidense, while Badger will just refute the claim and move on without any evidence. Using fielding percentage as if he were 68 years old and that was the only thing available to him. Do some reading up old man.

  12. Bobby says:

    i think at worst, beltre would be .270, 25hr and 85 rbi with good defense (better than blake)

    we also have nobody close to coming up to play 3b, unless pedro baez really steps it up, ethan martin moves to 3b, or jake lemmerman is moved to 3b from ss, because dee gordon is blocking him in LA.

    that being said, beltre is a necessity for our team for the next 3-4 yrs. those numbers would make him an above avg 3b in mlb, so he’s probably worth 13-14 mil a year for 5 yrs. unfortunately.

  13. Badger says:

    Bobby, David Wright makes $14 million. He is a much better 3rd baseman than Beltre ever was or ever will be. Evan Longoria won’t make $14 million over the next three years of his contract and he is probably the best in the game.

    Can’t we show a little patience here and get people who are on their way up?

    • Ray says:

      David Wright may have a slightly better bat, but he is NOWHERE near the fielder Beltre is……
      Beltre was a 7.1 WAR player last year, Wright was a 4.1 WAR player…and he was second only to Ryan Zimmerman….
      Fangraphs came up with $5mm per WAR, if I am not mistaken….
      Beltre is one of the best defensive 3bman ever imo…..

    • Dusto says:

      David Wright was the worst defensive thirdbaseman in all of baseball last year.

      Patience wasn’t shown for Longoria, because he is an elite player. The only reason we need “patience” for a player is because they would suck at the MLB level and it is that much more unlikely that said player can become and “ELITE” talent.

      I can agree that Longoria and Zimmerman are currently better than Beltre. But over a ten year period, no one else has been better. You know over the course of a 5 year contract he is going to average 4 WAR.

  14. Badger says:

    OK. You guys want him… you can have him.

    I would take about a half dozen other 3rd baseman ahead of him in my fantasy league.

    • Dusto says:

      Well in fantasy world he isn’t that valuable. But in the real world he is a 20 million dollar player. If you did a little bit of leg work and learned what WAR is and how it is calcualted you migth find out that it makes some sense. At least compare it to WAR calculations across other platforms to conclude that Beltre is an ELITE player.

      Most “older” kranky dodger fans dont like him because he signed with Seattle and ditched LA, tossing aside his actual value.

      • Badger says:

        I see, so you are assuming I don’t know what Wins Above Average is or how it’s computed. The idea that I might in fact have read a little on it and don’t give it as much credit as you do never occured to you? Everything that goes into WAR correlations offers essentially nothing in terms of our knowledge of team aggregate talent. If you are surrounded by inferior talent, how can those numbers actually be computed to Above Average?

        “And as far as individual players go, the relationship between aggregate error and individual error depends on how that error correlates across all teams. If individual errors are uncorrelated within a team, then this would be the result for almost any level of error in the WAR statistic.”

        I read somewhere that the stat heads figured out WAR correlates to .8. OK. .8 is a B on most tests. I just don’t know about WAR as WAR and wins measure two different things, and saying that the former works because it correlates with the latter doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

        I guess I am just old fashioned. Give me a guy who gets on base, runs like a head’s up deer (not measured by WAR) hits it over the fence 30+ times, knocks in 100 runs regularly, has an OPS over .800 and hits close to .300. That’s a guy for whom I will pay $14 million.

        And that ain’t Adrian Beltre.

        • Dusto says:

          I suppose Beltre does need to grimace more as he rounds the bases. Maybe act abit more surprised when a ground ball comes his way.

          Since 2005, Beltre has been the best defensive third baseman in all of baseball.

          At his worst he is still a top ten bat at his position. As we saw last year, he was on his game offensively and he was the best offensive performer at his position. (.001 wOBA ahead of Zimmerman)

          But he will be the best glove over the course of his next contract. He is easily worth 18 million a year. I don’t think he gets 18 million, but the 14 he is asking isn’t so perposterous you seem to think it is because he doesn’t run with his agape, or his OBP is still just league average.

          You’re right, you are old. Sites like “Fire Joe Morgan” were created for you.

  15. lawdog says:

    Ned is up to something. Last time I saw him he was playing cribbage with Mark and keeping an eye on the fire escape –making sure he’ll have a clear and quick path to exit the burning building once the Dodgers land in the cellar for keeps and all hell breaks loose.

  16. Badger says:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighda03.shtml

    Slightly better hitter? How about, much better hitter. And, how about 4 years younger, just entering his prime.

    • Dusto says:

      Even if Wright is better (which he isn’t, nor is he a better fielder) how are we going to get him? With what prospects can we trade for a franchise player? None the Mets want.

      • Badger says:

        Getting him wasn’t the point of the post.

        The point was…. he makes $14 million and there is a very good reason why he does. It has to do with him hitting the snot out of the ball with regularity. He is a better hitter than is Beltre.

        I say again, the players who make the big bucks aren’t being paid for their defense.

        • Dusto says:

          Well, your a bit behind the times, because Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth (the two best defensive performers at their respective positions while also being competent hitters) are getting paid the big bucks. The “hit only” players like Adam Dunn got the same 14 million per year as your poneyboy David Wright.

  17. Bobby says:

    Badge, obviously i agree with you, and if i had my choice, i’d take wright and longoria any day of the week over beltre. same with zimmerman.

    however, none of those guys are available as free agents. thus, beltre is the only option.

    now, if we went and got prince fielder for 1b, i’d be fine with blake at 3b this year, or, even better, with uribe at 3b and IDJ at 2b.

    but right now, beltre is the only 3b option out there, and he’s the only one with some pop and a good glove

    • Dusto says:

      I think it is fair to say Beltre has a hall of fame glove. Over the last 10 years only Scott Rolen is close to doing what Beltre has.

  18. SpokaneBob says:

    Ned is done for the year. Right now it Christmas festivities and well wishing at the Dodger Stadium offices. I don’t see him doing anything big until late in spring training, if at all.

  19. Dusto says:

    David Wright was the worst fielding thirdbaseman in baseball last year.

  20. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Regarding David Wright. I don’t watch a lot of Met games, but I do speak to a lot of Met fans. And those Met fans tell me unanimously that David Wright leaves a lot to be desired defensively. When Wright won the gold glove it was for his bat, as is often the case. I believe Pujols won the gold glove this year at 1B. Was he really better than Adrian Gonzalez with the glove? James Loney? Rolen won the gold glove at 3B. I know he’s been historically an excellent third baseman, but really, is he better than Ryan Zimmerman? And let’s go back to when Russell Martin won the gold glove. The fact that Yadier Molina didn’t win it that year was a joke. The fact that Yadier Molina doesn’t win it every year is a joke.

    I haven’t seen Beltre play much since he left the Dodgers. But if he’s still anything like he was defensively before he left, and hits .270 with 25 HR, I would definitely pay him $14 million per year to play 3B for the Dodgers. I’m not worried about the length of the contract, because I believe that the Dodgers ability to spend will take a quantum leap as they approach close to 2014 and Dodger TV, no matter who the owner is. And that’s especially true since the Dodgers do not currently have a 3B option in there system anywhere near the big leagues. If there’s another good option out there other than Beltre, then I’m all for it. I just don’t know who it is.

    Ned being quiet doesn’t really mean much this close to the Christmas and New Years. Lots gets done in January and February. No reason why this year should be any different just because some fans get impatient.

    I would definitely like to see Loney hit for more power, and I still think he’s capable. But for me, job #1 for him is to reverse the increased strikeouts and decreased walks of 2010. If he does that, his average, OBP and power numbers will improve, maybe even dramatically. And if memory serves, I believe he did have 41 doubles in 2010.

    I think Uribe is an improvement over anything we had a 2B last year, and I hate the thought of Blake/Gibbons in LF.

    Maybe we need an upgrade at catcher, maybe not. I don’t think A.J. Ellis’ pickup in hitting was a mirage. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he could maintain .280 or higher with a solid OBP. Navarro used to be a guy with strong plate discipline. If that returns, he could also be an asset. Barajas is what he is. A .220 – .240 hitter with good power when he makes contact (however often that is).

    Broxton definitely has trade value, but I just wouldn’t be too eager to trade him unless offered a substantial return. There is no guarantee that Broxton will bounce back, but if he does, the Dodgers could have a lights out bullpen. Broxton, Jansen, Kuo and Padilla at the back-end of the Dodger bullpen could be awesome. And the rest of the pen doesn’t look to shabby either, especially if Elbert steps up as the second lefty, and Belisario starts to figure it out. If the Giants have an edge in starting pitching, the Dodgers have the edge in the bullpen. And speaking of the Giants rotation, I am not convinced that Jonathan Sanchez is all that good, and although he has strong potential, Madison Bumgarner is still an unproven commodity over the long haul. He could experience the same growing pains that plagued Kershaw and Billingsley. And for now, I’ll take Garland over Zito in the #5 slot.

  21. Corey says:

    It sounds to me as though Scott Boras is aka “Dusto”
    lol…I like Beltre too, but don’t personally like him for 5 or 6 years at $15 million per.
    I would rather see Uribe at 3rd and IDJ at 2nd, unless we could get him for 10-12 per

    • Dusto says:

      I happen to agree. The Dodgers are done spending. Calling me scott boras i will take as a complement.

      The argument was about the value of Beltre. He certainly is worth the 15′ish million over 5 years (as reportedly offered by CA Angels), but the Dodgers dont have the money to spend.

      If we had a 200 million dollar payroll you could have signed Beltre, Lee instead of Garland, and Werth along with the rest of the mediocre (Uribe, Barajas, Gurrier, Padilla, Gwynn and navarro) free agents we signed.

  22. Ken says:

    Nice to see who the 16 kids will be that are going to the Dodger Development Program in January. Maybe two of them will make the MLB team in September. This year Baez must learn to hit or become a pitcher.

  23. Badger says:

    Thank you Corey. I agree with you.

    If .270 with 25 home runs and 88 RBI’s is worth $14 million to you guys, what is .294 with 29 home runs and 103 rbi’s worth?

    I think it’s important to note that defensive players do not, I say again DO NOT, make the big money. If that were the case, Juan Castro would have been demanding $14 mil a year for the last decade. David Wright has knocked in 100 5 times, scored 96 or more 4 times, is a lifetime .305 hitter and he has done this in 6 years. Beltre has knocked in 100 twice, scored over 96 once, is a lifetime .275 hitter and he has been around 11 years.

    Tell you what Brooklyn, let the Met fans have 1 year of Adrian Beltre’s numbers and they will be begging for David Wright to come home. 3rd base is about offense.

    Look, just to be clear, I think Adrian Beltre is a HUGE improvement over Blake. I just don’t see him being worth that much money over those years. This organization MUST be frugal with it’s money. They have not been, and I would like to see them be smart for a change. 3 year contract to Guerrier? Lilly $33 million for 3 years – and deferred? Kuroda for one year and $12 million? Still paying Manny, Pierre, Schmidt and Jones? $105 million for this team? Geez…. when does this organization wise up?

  24. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Badger,

    I wasn’t comparing Beltre to Wright. I was simply commenting that Wright is no wiz with the glove. In that respect Beltre is the superior player. No doubt Wright is younger and overall has been more accomplished with the bat. And even though Wright strikes out a lot (but also gets on base a lot) I would take him on the Dodgers in a heartbeat. But Wright is not the issue with respect to free agency. He’s not available except via trade, and that no doubt would come at a prohibitive cost. So while I would love to have Wright, it doesn’t diminish in my eyes the worth of Beltre. At this point in time I would be willing to sign Beltre for 5 or 6 years at $14 million per. If Beltre produced like I think he would, I would guess that he could pay for himself within the first few years of the contract. Five years would take Beltre to age 36 in the final year, and six years would take him to 37. He may or may not be productive in his final years, but I believe that he could definitely be a difference maker in the first few years, and might be a piece of the puzzle that helps fill Dodger Stadium night after night. If all the other pieces are in place, the Dodgers would be extremely competitive, and who knows, might even add a championship.

    • Dusto says:

      Finally a point we can agree on. Colletti and Dodger management haven’t been on the right side of negotiations for a while!

      But just because Wright gets paid 14 million doesn’t mean he sets the cost for third basemen. At 14, thats a pretty generous team friendly contract. Wright is every bit as valuable as Beltre, even more because of his age. But at 14 million Wright is under contract while Beltre is a free agent. If Wright were a free agent he could demand 18+ million and likely receive it. In the same breath Beltre can demand 15+ million and should receive it. That is their true value.

    • CVAZ says:

      I rather wait and try and bring PRINCE FIELDER

  25. Badger says:

    I do see your point. I just don’t agree with you. We usually do agree, so, I can certainly live with this one. Wright makes $14 million a year because he mashes the ball. THAT is what I would like to get for $14 million. And yes, Beltre would be a huge upgrade, but we already have Blake at $5 million – what do we do with him? And please, don’t tell me left field.

    With his career numbers, and superior fielding abilities, I am willing to commit $9 million a year for 4 years for Beltre and would give him an incentive laden team option for a 5th year that would pay him even more if incentives are met. Borass is his agent so he would turn me down, but that’s all the value I can give to him. We are going to need that extra $5 million per year, and then some, to keep the ELK around. And to be perfectly honest with you, I would take any of those three over Beltre.

  26. W's ghost says:

    Have a clever nickname for you. Saw it in the NY Times baseball article the other day — about how the Phillies fans look to their pitching staff –

    that almost every game they go to that R2C2 will be pitching: Roy or Roy or Cliff or Cole, thus: R2C2

    Clever.

    So, how could the Dodgers counter with this?

    C2HTJ

  27. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Badger,

    I have one word for Blake in left-field. YUCH!!!!!!!! Same goes for Blake/Gibbons.

    If we had Beltre, I imagine that Blake could serve as a valuable (although expensive) utility player at the corners, and as a pinch hitter. Who knows, maybe there’s a team out there that would take him if the Dodgers picked up a $2-3 million. I could be wrong, but isn’t Blake due something closer to $6 million?

    Look, I don’t really know what the market is for Beltre. If he could be had for less than $14 million and less than 5-6 years, that would be great. That said, I believe that his combination of solid offense and superior defense could justify $14 million per year. Not having seen Beltre play in a long time, I could certainly be wrong. So if the Dodgers are really one of the teams pursuing Beltre (doubtful), then I have to trust their judgment as to his worth.

    And if acquiring Beltre kept the Dodgers from keeping ELK around, then I would certainly be opposed to his acquisition. Acquiring Beltre only makes sense if he complements ELK, and doesn’t serve to replace any of them. And it’s not only ELK the Dodgers have to lock up, but also BK.

  28. Ken says:

    I would like to see the Dodgers use a Left handed batting practice pitcher when Either, Loney, Gibbons, et al are schdeuled to be in the lineup.

  29. Badger says:

    Until further notice, that would be every day.

    Bring back Tommy.

  30. artie says:

    look at the 16 prospects going to mini camp jan7-15th….SELLERS all the way!

  31. Ken says:

    Whats happenning

    The spinners at Dodgersmlb.com have displayed a picture of a young Juan Pierre in a Dodgers uniform for about a week.

    The Dodgers are 7th in off season spending quantitatively. Qualitatively I rank them higher than 7th based upon needs, priority and budget limitations.

    So Philly now has a budget problen and has to move people(s) in order to obtain a much needed right OF handed bat, which according to some are numerous. NED why can’t you sign/trade one of these guys.

  32. DRomo says:

    I think it is laughable that so many of you forget how hard the Dodgers tried to replace Beltre for so many years as he underachieved. Do you remember how we ended up with Tyler Houston and Robin Ventura? It was because the site of Beltre chasing everything down and away was an everyday occurance and he was not showing any signs of improvment. So he had 1 career year. hen he bolted! Guess what he had a great year in a hitters ballpark last season.

    He isnt coming back. Don’t be fooled by the rumor (that Mark made up) that he wants to come back to LA. There are some that say he still owns a house here, well guess what the house is for sale!
    He doesn’t want to be here. He may end up with Anaheim of OC but they will have to go out and offer him 5 to 6 yrs!! Hell no! That is a huge mistake!

    Thats my take!

    Merry Christmas Dodger Brothers. See you all on the other side!

    • Dusto says:

      The conversation isn’t about the Dodgers getting Beltre, necessarily. Though I wouldn’t mind it at the right price. But thats a different discussion. Its a discussion about the value of Beltre.

      The fact that he is asking for (in all likelyhood) 15 million plus is the argument. It wouldn’t be a wise move for the Dodgers simply because of their financial obligations to overpaid veterans… again, different conversation.

      Simply put, Beltre is an Elite defender at third, and more than competent bat. He’s every bit as valuable as the 14+ million we’ve seen out there. I don’t know that he gets it, but that is his worth. He’s easily a 3.5-4 WAR player and should get paid as such.

      • Badger says:

        That is your opinion.

        And yes, I am older than you. And thus, I have seen a lot more than you have, including baseball players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, Willie Mays, Brooks Robinson, Harmon Killebrew and…. Adrian Beltre. I can have an opinion too and Beltre doesn’t belong in the same discussion with those guys.

        Adrian Beltre has had 3 good years in his 13 year career – (about 1 in 4) – 2000, 2004 and last year. The other years have been mediocre. Just look at where he ranked in the 5 years from ’05 – ’09. It really isn’t that difficult to read… at his position in those years he ranked 17th 16th 20th 24th and unranked in average. In OPS he was 11th 10th 15th 24th and unranked. And that is just at his own position.

        You say he is “easily worth $18 million”. Well again, that is your opinion. I say ’04 and ’10 won’t likely be repeated but the other years, the years where he hits .265 are more likely to be seen, at least 3 times in the next 4.

        The Dodgers need to be more selective with their money. If they were the West Coast Yankees, yeah, sure, throw Beltre the money. If he hits .260 – so what?

  33. W's ghost says:

    Even though I like Beltre, and would like to see him in Dodger blue again — I agree with Badger. Big money for him at 3b now, and for a number of years following is not wise — since more money will be need for the core Dodgers in 12, 13, 14, 15 etc.

    But a trade during the season might happen if the Dodgers are playing well, and need a key bat to bring it home.

  34. Bill Russell says:

    I agree with Badger that we should be more selective with the money we are throwing around. Actually I thought it was Dusto saying that before the Beltre discussion. Beltre is not worth a six or seven year superstar contract that Boras is going to get for him. Save the money for Kershaw, Billingsley, Kemp and Ethier. Beltre’s price isn’t going to come down for the Dodgers to get him cheap. I would hate to sign Beltre for that kind of money and have our hands tied to where Ethier and Kershaw are Yankees in a few years. In fact, never deal with a Boras client. I’m tried of Boras running the prices up on players that hire this clown. Boras is bad for the baseball fan trying to attend a game or two during the season. How rich does baseball players need to be?

    On another note, Atkins signed a minor league contract with the Pirates. That may have been worth a gamble. He’s a local guy that may have found his groove in LA. or not.

  35. Bill Russell says:

    If they bring back steroids, bring back Beltre.

  36. Bobby says:

    great points badger.

    he’s worth a solid contract, as he’s an above avg 3b. but he’s not elite. he wont fill seats.

    and i dont know 1 dodger fan that will buy a beltre jersey, just because he’s back!

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