Categorized | Mark Timmons

I’ll Show You The Money!

I’ll Show You The Money!

Maury Brown of Fangraphs has an interesting post worth reading, in which he breaks down the year-end payrolls of all the teams.  He has the Dodgers Payroll in 2009 at $131,507,000 and in 2010 it was $109,573,000.  It was the 4th highest in the NL in 2010 and only one of the teams who spent more made the playoffs.

It seems it’s not about the money as much as it’s about the personnel decisions.

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

45 Responses to “I’ll Show You The Money!”

  1. chucky says:

    Being a number man, they can mean anything but the “devil is in the details”.

    That being said; in 2009 the end of year payroll of $131mm AND included (I am assuming) $6mm in DEFERRED PAYMENTS to non-roster players for a NET PAYROLL OF $125mm.

    In 2010 we had a payroll of $110mm BUT that included $16mm in DEFERRED PAYMENTS to non-roster players for a NET PAYROLL of $94mm.

    In my accountant talk that is Net payroll for players on the roster fell 25% from 2009 to 2010.

    It could be that the $125mm payroll (excl deferred) can not be sustained in this market (with the Dodgers current revenue streams) and that management felt that a Net payroll of $110mm was more sustainable.

    Dodgers RE-SIZED the company in 2010, why? could it be due to the management TAKES the McCheaps were getting?

  2. Badger says:

    So, let’s look at this from Mark’s point of view.

    There is no divorce.

    OK, with that, and the idea that with the fourth highest payroll in the National League we can outspend nearly all of the play-off teams, there is only one conclusion that can be made:

    Fire Ned Colletti.

    All of our problems are because of him.

  3. Ken says:

    Ok the problem is not with salary amounts. It is with drafting players, developing players and coaching players.

  4. Jaydavis says:

    Why haven’t the Dodgerss signed Beltre! This is bull shite. No excuses About the money. Get her done

  5. Mark Timmons says:

    No divorce is your reality, not mine.

    I could probably argue the case for either side… but why?

    The only winners are lawyers.

    The facts are clear. The Dodgers are still spending like a big market team.

    Is the divorce a factor?

    That’s obvious.

    It’s just not a killer.

    • Badger says:

      “No divorce is your reality, not mine.”

      My reality? Have you read anything I have posted?

      “The facts are clear. The Dodgers are still spending like a big market team.”

      Uh, NO, they are not. Last year they were 12th in payroll, third in attendance. They were outspent by the Twins and the Giants for crying out loud.

  6. Roger Dodger says:

    Will be at the Alamo Bowl tonight. 1st row, 25 yard line. Had those same seats for years and years now.

  7. Badger says:

    Is that still the “Valero” Alamo Bowl, Roger? Arizona is in it, so I might give it a few minutes.

  8. Mark Timmons says:


    “Uh, NO, they are not. Last year they were 12th in payroll, third in attendance. They were outspent by the Twins and the Giants for crying out loud.”

    Is that your final spin, ‘er answer?

    Because the buzzer will sound if it is….

    Does it make you feel good to pull that out of your a$$… or Simers a$$?

  9. Badger says:

    “Does it make you feel good”

    yeah, watching my Dodgers become a second tier team makes me feel real good mover.

    Why do you say I am pulling this out of my ass? I read a lot. I have the time. Of all people, YOU should be honest enough to admit how right I have been about SO MANY things the last decade. How are those two wars going for you? Hows the economy doing? I could go on and on and on about those issues….. but sticking to baseball…. you said last year the team would win 96+ games, Kemp and Ethier would both have 30+ home runs and 100+ rbi’s. You said Kershaw and Billingsley would win 20 games each and the Dodgers would cruise into the World Series. I told you IF everything went right, the Dodgers could MAYBE win as many as 92, but odds were very much against them having enough to win a championship.

    They stunk. But it had nothing to do with the owner?

    We still don’t know how this whole thing will shake out, but one thing you can be sure of……. just like some of us have been saying all year….the Dodgers this off season are not real players for any of the big time MLB free agent stars. They aren’t coming here. Not with the financial instability that is clearly surrounding the onwers.

    • Ken says:

      At least Sir John does list his projections in one place and then critics himself, fairly objectively, once the year is over.

  10. lawdog says:

    Ok the problem is not with salary amounts. It is with drafting players, developing players and coaching players.–

    Ken put it nicely in a nutshell. When you’ve spent yourself silly into insolvency by gambling that future revenues will rise to not only maintain a criminal life style of self indulgence but also pay for current salary obligations to players who will be long out of the game while still getting paid, you have left the path rational business and entered the world of right wing big business. What was done by Wall Street to our country in 2008 has been happening to our beloved team since McGoo took over the reigns.

    A day of reckoning has arrived and we must now rely on our farm system and the players we’ve developed. As Ken said, we’ve failed in that regard just as miserably and we are now doomed to watch “The Los Angeles Pirates” until long after the Cubbies finally win the series.

    McGoo out to switch names with the Pittsburgh team as the Pirates is a more fitting moniker for a team he’s put together than the Dodgers.

    Happy New Year and enjoy your refusal to face facts and spin fantasy Mark. At some time you’ll wake up to just how miserably mismanaged this club has been under the McGoos.

  11. Badger says:

    It’s a atall ldog. McBorrow is just marking time until 2014. Who knows, maybe the divorce stretches out that long… maybe he settles with Jamie the way he settles everything – defer defer defer. ’11 ’12 and ’13 will be more of what we are seeing now – just keep backloading and we will worry about how to actually pay for it later. (Kind of familiar isn’t it?)

    In the mean time somebody has to reel Jed in or more of our prospects will be sent packing for the Dotels and Blakes of the league. McGoo needs a moneyball guy in here, at least for three more years.

  12. lawdog says:

    Jed’s cupboard is bare. He has no prospect to offer other teams except for one rookie pitcher who’s untouchable. For McGoo the day of reckoning has come and he’s been found wanting. He’s managed to ruin the best franchise in the west in just a few years. That’s not an easy thing to pull off with a market as rich the left coast and southern california.

  13. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    I would love to see McCourt out of LA posthaste. However, apparently backloading is common practice in MLB.

  14. lawdog says:

    Dilbeck’s report in today’s blog implies we could sign Beltre for 5 years at $65 million. (That would beat the only offer on the table by a cool one million over 5 years.) Mark has been right about Beltre’s desire to return to LA where he still lives. And he’s been crushing national league pitching in the inter-league games.

    Seems like a no-brainer to me. And it would bring back many fans who are sick to death with McGoo and his charade. So, you can bet it’s a sure thing not to happen.

  15. Badger says:

    Yeah, I read what Dierkes wrote about that this morning Brooklyn. Lee is the best example of heavily backloaded deal. Might work with him, might not. But, I have to ask, does any team out there carry the DEAD weight that the Dodgers do? Combine that with backloaded contracts of guys that may, or may not, still be with us when those contracts explode and it’s a recipe for disaster.

    I’m telling you, it’s a stall game until 2014. ldog is right about one thing for sure, McGoo is hanging on by his fingernails.

    I also re-read Molly Knight’s July ESPN write up on the Dodger owners, and the toxic divorce, and was creeped out all over again. McCourt’s. Ick.

  16. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    Badger, I don’t disagree that it’s a stall game until 2014. I’ve made the point on numerous occasions that I believe McCourt (assuming he retains his ownership) will be willing to spend more as we get closer to 2014. I also believe that he could start spending before 2014, if he can line up sponsorships in anticipation of Dodger TV. I believe that some of the deferred money goes out as far as 2014, but that some of it disappears a year or two prior to that year. I believe Schmidt is finished after this year, and Pierre either after this year or next.

    As for McCourt, I share your distaste for the reprobate. Same for Jamie.

    Signing Beltre would be nice. And I agree with Lawdog that it would bring back disenchanted fans. Distasteful as I find McCourt, stupid he is not. I would like to think he would be open to the idea of bringing back Beltre if he thought it could give the team a major boost in attendance. But yes, it’s not likely to happen.

  17. Badger says:

    I still don’t see where the money is coming from, unless of course there is an unknown partner, or ticket sales are going through the roof. I mean, we did sign Lilly, Kuroda and Garland. Maybe that was enough for the box seat holders.

    Funny, the Dodgers aren’t mentioned above in the where will Adrian sign poll. I don’t know why he would take less to come to L.A.. Certainly not with Borass as his agent.

    I don’t see how 1. signing Beltre will boost attendance or b. signing Beltre will put this team over the top. Most people are still miffed he blew us off (and he did mover, as has been posted numerous time) for a larger deal in Seattle. One good year with us and he goes elsewhere to hit .270. The heck with him. Besides, we are already paying a starting third baseman $5 million. Add Beltre’s contract and that is over $17 million for two guys who won’t hit 35 home runs or drive in 100 between them. Beltre is not the answer. Unless he is in the group of investors that want to buy the Dodgers. If that’s the case…. welcome home Adrian!

    • CVAZ says:

      I think NEd is being patient and is setting up the deal to rbing PRINCE FIELDER in MID SEASON. I think we should give the dude what he wants (23 per year)and sign him long term. This guy is only 25 and averages 30 homeruns per season. He can also hit for average and is a decent defensive 1st baseman. The guy will still improve and i think this will be the best chance to land him since most of the BIG MONEY TEAMS will not be in the mix because most dont need a 1st baseman like (STANKEES, REDSOX, PHILS) We should try and bring him to LA!

  18. lawdog says:

    The problem is the jack. McGoo would have to literally rob a bank now to get the financing for a major star. Beltre is a double flash in the pan with two career seasons separated by 5 years of bad play in Seattle and would b cheap by elite FA standards. Nonetheless, if McGoo could find the green to sign Beltre at 13 million per, he’d look good in the middle of the order and bring people like me back into the fold.

    I’ve been a Dodger fan all my life–but I’ll no longer pay one penny until they make the club a contender again. And it ain’t happening with our farm system anytime during my lifetime. McGoo has ruined what was once the best farm system in baseball though giving away raw talent, failing to develop talented players and drafting or trading for no talent bums

  19. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    I saw recently that Beltre hit more homers on the road last year than in Fenway. So it’s clear that his power was not dependent on that park alone. In fact, in some respects the Monster robs hitters of homers because of its height. Rising line drives that would go out in Dodger Stadium end up hitting off the Monster. That said, it’s probably easier to hit homers in Boston.

    Beltre was hitting 25-26 homers per year in Seattle, sans his first year and 2009, when he was injured. A typical Beltre year of .270 with about 25 HR, and his superb defense would be a major boost for the Dodgers. He’s a better offensive player than Blake ever was, and certainly so when compared to the aging and declining Blake. And defensively, Beltre is worth quite a few extra victories. He’s that good. And I believe his bat is good enough to allow the Dodgers to use Gwynn in center with Ethier in left and Kemp in right; a definite boost to the outfield defense. It could also allow the Dodgers to work T. Rob into the lineup, in place of or in tandem with Gwynn.

    Yes, carrying Blake’s $5-6 million could be an issue. But I also believe that it could be well worth it. Used more sparingly to fill in at first and third (hopefully not the outfield), and too pinch hit, I believe that Blake could become a productive contributor, both on the field and in the clubhouse.

    I won’t even speculate what the Dodgers can afford. I’m not privy to their inside financial information, and neither is anyone else on this blog. If they don’t have the money, then they won’t spend it. If they do (whatever the source), then they just might.

    And yes, I believe that Beltre could help boost attendance. His signing, together with all the other moves the Dodgers have made, would be a sign to the fan base that the Dodgers are serious about winning. That alone should boost ticket sales. If Beltre were to then translate into more victories, then fans would keep filling the seats throughout the season. If Beltre turned out to be a bust, then, yes, attendance would wane as the season progressed.

  20. Ken says:

    Sir John hits a grand slam today.

    I wish Mark had the money for an EDIT button!

    “When you’ve spent yourself silly into insolvency by gambling that future revenues will rise to not only maintain a criminal life style of self indulgence but also pay for current salary obligations to players who will be long out of the game while still getting paid, you have left the path rational business and entered the world of right wing big business. What was done by Wall Street to our country in 2008 has been happening to our beloved team since McGoo took over the reigns.”

    LD – Not much difference in the spending world these days between Wall Street and the Whitehouse and Unions and Government Pensions. Narcissism run amuck. It all began in 1970 when entitlements were transformed from privileges to rights by the US Supreme Court. Goldberg v. Kelly, 397 U.S. 254 (1970)

    If the Dodgers can trade Broxton or a combination of players whose salary is about $7 mil then they might be able to afford to sign Beltre.

  21. Bill Russell says:

    I agree with pretty much everything that’s being said except the 5 year 13 million dollar contract is worth our while. He’s had a history of injuries and mediocre offensive seasons. He’s a step above Blake defensively but I’m not sure he’ll win more games with his glove. A quiz on the Dodgers diamond vision last year was stating that Blake has one of the best fielding percentages for the amount of games played as a Dodger. Blakes not chopped liver at 3rd defensively.

    Why don’t we wait and see how the divorce plays out, see how our raising players bounce back this year and make some mid season moves if needed? Then throw the money at the right players for once.
    I was listening to the guys from the MLB network talk about Beltre and they were saying he’s not the kind of guy that can put a team on his back and carry them. He may have done that once in the steroid year but I would have to agree with the guys at MLB network about that statement. He’s a number 5 hitter at best. Right now we need someone to take Manny’s place or wait for something better next year. We need to quit throwing gas on the fire.

  22. lawdog says:

    I didn’t realize Beltre played that well in Seattle. No one up here liked him and wanted the Ms to trade him back to LA–where Beltre told the press he wanted to go. looks like $13 million per for 5 years isn’t such a bad investment after all when you consider what other elite players hauled in this year as FAs.

  23. Badger says:

    Beltre played ok in Seattle. Good defense, ok offense…. but he was WAY OVERPAID up there. They gave him that $64 million to do again what he had done in L.A. – .334 with 48 home runs and 121 rbi’s. What did they get out of him? .270 with 25 HR’s and 80 some rbi’s. Huge disappointment for the fans up ther. Ask them if they would pay to see Beltre. And….. does anyone here believe he will do next year what he did last year? Seriously… anyone?

    Beltre does not carry a team unless he has a special “diet” with which to do it. Those days are over. Depending on what lineup he is in, he will likely do what he usually does….. .270 with 80 rbi’s. Yeah, we could use that… but we should get .260 with 70 rbi’s out of Blake/back-up 3b… that is if Blake can manage to stay on the field. I don’t see how this team can afford what Bora$$ is going to get for Beltre.

    And I still say fans don’t pay extra money to see a guy like Beltre. I guess there is another thing we disagree on Brooklyn.

    And Ken, big difference between what Wall Street is doing and what the government is doing. Wall Street (U.S. corporations) is going all over the planet taking advantage of loopholes and cheap labor. At least the current government is making an effort to spend our money on our own people. Of course, there is all that wasted money on our wars…. sure wish Barry would come through on that campaign promise.

  24. Roger Dodger says:

    Show ME the Money !!!

    Badger, you and I best get ready for Spring Training 2011.

    Here is why — if a major league team today, can sign a contract with Octavio Dotel for $3.5 million and a club option for 2012 — they will sign anyone.

    Last year this guy pitched for 3 teams (Pit, LAD, Col) and was in a total of 65 games, with 64 innings, had 22 saves (21 with Pit, 1 with LAD, zero with Colorado).

    He is now 36 years old. Heck I am only 33 years older and I learned a lot of pitches years ago:

    I learned the Hesitation Pitch from Satchel Paige,

    I learned the Spit Ball from former Dodger great Burleigh Grimes,

    I learned the screwball from Fernando Valenzuela,

    I learned how to cut the ball with my belt buckle from Don Sutton,

    I learned how to use Vaseline from Gaylord Perry,

    With these pitches I can go out there in relief and mow em’ down.

  25. Badger says:

    As long it’s thrown down the middle, I think I can still hit an 88 mph fastball, which the Dodgers will have a few of…..

    I just won’t pay any money to this owner. Maybe I’ll head down and see the dbacks, my local team…….

  26. Roger Dodger says:

    Badger, I just was out in the back yard, and pitched to our dog Monty. He swung and missed everything I threw to him.

    I am ready.

  27. Bill Russell says:

    Roger, we should start you up in the K-9 “A” league.

  28. Bill Russell says:

    Robert Timm over at Dodger Dugout throw out Jerome Dye as a possible gamble. Interesting

  29. lawdog says:

    Interesting. Dye is 36 and was out of baseball in 2010. In 2009 he hit around .250 and hit 27 or 28 hrs if I remember correctly. I guess I could go to ESPN and check it out for sure. Even so, he’s less of a geezer and a significant upgrade over Blake if you want to play them both in left. Too bad he can’t play 3rd.

  30. Dodgerblue says:

    Beltre is just sitting out there waiting for a team like the Dodgers to take him. Granted he’s probably still upset with what we did last time to him, but still if we were able to land him. I believe our team would be able to compete with Philadelphia. Even though he’s out there, there is no way Ned will offer him a contract. Right about now, he’s probably sitting at home on the coach patting himself on the back for all of the decisions he made this offseason. Well I don’t think getting Juan Uribe is going to be a huge factor in getting a World Series. Right now if we wouldn’t have spent all of that money on Uribe, Gurrier or whatever his name is, and John Garland then we would’ve been able to get an all star like a Beltre or a Cliff Lee. Instead we’re stuck here with all of this second rate players. Thanks Ned!

  31. Roger Dodger says:

    Dodgerblue, second rate players . . . that’s how you see it now.

    But Ned would say, if you are on top of all of the other second rate teams, at least you are on top of something.

    Ah, but we are still ahead of Houston, Pittsburgh, and Kansas City. That is because they (I believe) have mostly younger players and the Dodgers keep loading up on the vet’s.

  32. Roger Dodger says:

    Hall of Fame ballot — who do you vote for?

    Bert Blyleven
    Roberto Alomar
    Jack Morris
    Barry Larkin
    Lee Smith
    Edgar Martinez
    Tim Raines
    Mark McGwire
    Alan Trammell
    Fred McGriff
    Don Mattingly
    Dave Parker
    Dale Murphy
    Harold Baines
    Carlos Baerga
    Jeff Bagwell
    Bret Boone
    Kevin Brown
    John Franco
    Juan González
    Marquis Grissom
    Lenny Harris
    Bobby Higginson
    Charles Johnson
    Al Leiter
    Tino Martinez
    Raúl Mondesí
    John Olerud
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Kirk Rueter
    Benito Santiago
    B. J. Surhoff
    Larry Walker

  33. Roger Dodger says:

    Here is my take: I vote for . . .

    Bert Blyleven – I talked with him once at a Twins / Rangers game. So he should get in.

    Roberto Alomar – was a really great player. Should have been a Dodger.

    Jack Morris – he pitched in some very important games.

    Barry Larkin – I have a really nice autographed picture of Barry ready for my HOF wall pictures.

    Lee Smith – the guy was really something as a reliever in his day. And he played for some really bad teams as I remember.

    Edgar Martinez – why not, great DH, one has to go in sooner than later.

    Dale Murphy – back to back MVP years gives him a nod for me; but has not had a lot of vote in the past.

    Alan Trammell – played only for the Tigers, weighed only 165 pounds, and was important to their team. Not a slugger, but an important player.

  34. Mark Timmons says:


    Bert Blyleven

    Roberto Alomar

    Jack Morris

    Edgar Martinez

    Alan Trammell

    Dale Murphy

    Larry Walker

    and Gil Hodges and Pete Rose!

  35. Badger says:

    Worthy was a baseketball player. He won’t go into the baseball HOF.

    I think I played against Blyleven in American Legion ball. So, he gets my vote. Pete Rose should go in. Kevin Brown has some interesting numbers, including the numbers on the massive contract that should have gone to Piazza. Maybe he gets in for duping the Dodgers the way he did.

    Many of the rest on that list have similar numbers. Do guys that did steroids get a pass?

    Roger, I have been swinging a bat the last week and think I might be ready. Since .240 hitters get paid millions, I think it’s time for my comeback. I hit .300 in every league I ever played in, from the Canoga Park Little League to the Sunset League in Orange County, to the R.E.B.L. over 30 MABL Legue in Napa County (at age 56). I got skills. Time to cash in. And, I am willing to defer my contract, so, that gets me in the front door with Frankie Dimes.

  36. lawdog says:

    Blyleven had the best curve ball I ever had the pleasure to watch–and from a seat right behind the back stop no less. If he’d had a fastball that hit in the mid nineties he might have gone down as the bast pitcher of all time. His curve was that good! Even better than Koufax’ curve ball and that is saying something.

    Badge, if you can hit .200 McGoo will sign you up for a cool 2 million and plug you into the hole we have at 3rd base. Just work up a bogus resume and send it to Jed and you’re in! :mrgreen:

  37. Badger says:

    I’ll have to lie about my age – tell them I am 46. That should open a door.

    How ’bout dem Rams ldog. Surprised? I sure am. I remember saying I would have gone with Jason Campbell at qb and drafted Suh. Looks like Bradford will be a star in this league… if he ever gets some WR’s to throw to.

    • lawdog says:

      The Rams are truly a kick in the ass to watch these days. Shows what intelligent planning can do for a team. From 6-46 to a probably playoff birth in one season, a bunch of castoffs and scrubs well chosen and coached up, a premier rookie quarterback and the meanest running back to ever play the game and viola!

      That’s the Rams.

      Maybe we can hire Spags to coach our AA club and Delaney to handle our drafts in the off season, eh?

  38. Badger says:

    I wouldn’t get too excited… the West is a dump. If the Hawks win this week-end, they go in the play-offs at 7-9.

    But, Spags has done a remarkable job. They have what? 1 Pro Bowl worthy player on that team? I will be watching with interest this Sunday, but don’t you think whatever Wild Card team they get will hand them their ass?

  39. lawdog says:

    HasseldBack is out and the inexperienced backup Whitehurst is going to try and qb the Hawks to a win. Seattle’s starting LT is also out.

    Rams get back Uh-Oh at tight end; while DX, Sammy and SJ are all healthy. In fact, the Rams haven’t been this healthy in weeks. I think the Rams win this one in a laugher. In addition to everything else, they are better coached and play with more focused passion They probably go down against the Saints, but it’s been a great run. Next year might be real special.

    How’d you like the way they ended the season for the Farty Whiners last week?

  40. Badger says:

    Forty niners gettin eliminated the way they were was sweet.

    I think you are right about how this coming game sets up, but I am not about to set myself up for disappointment by expecting a win. After a 1-15 season, just the fact they are playing for the Division Title is huge.


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