Categorized | Mark Timmons

Let’s Get Serious

Let’s Get Serious

As we get ready for the home opener, it’s time to get down to business.  So, we need to get a  few famous perspectives on beer:

Let's Play Ball!

Sometimes when I reflect on all the beer I drink, I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their  hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work  and their dreams would be shattered.  I think,  ”It is better to drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my  liver.”  – Babe Ruth

 An  intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend his time with  fools.  – Ernest Hemingway

 When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.  – Paul Hornung

 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case.  Coincidence? I think not. — H.L.  Mencken

 When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When

 We fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to 

 heaven.  So, let’s all get drunk and go to  heaven!

 – George Bernard  Shaw

 Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.  – Benjamin  Franklin

 Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with  pizza. — Dave Barry

 Beer: Helping  ugly people have sex since 3000 b.c.  – W.C.  Fields

 Remember “I” before “E”, except in  Budweiser. — Professor Irwin  Corey

 To some it’s a six-pack, to me it’s a  “support group.” Salvation in a can! — Leo  Durocher


One night at Cheers, Cliff Clavin  explained the “Buffalo Theory” to  His buddy, Norm. “Well ya see, Norm,  it’s like this. A herd of  buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest  buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones  at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the  herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.  In  this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells,  making the brain a faster and more efficient machine! That’s why you always feel smarter after a few beers.”

Now, we are ready:  Play Ball!

Today’s Dodger Lineup:

  1. Furcal, SS
  2. Kemp, CF
  3. Ethier, RF
  4. Ramirez, LF
  5. Loney, 1B
  6. Blake, 3B
  7. DeWitt, 2B
  8. Martin, C
  9. Kershaw, P

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

29 Responses to “Let’s Get Serious”

  1. Ken says:

    And for us 2nd guessers, if Monasterios is not going to be used when the score is 9-2 and he has not pitched in 5 days, being the most rested relief pitcher, why is he even on the roster.

  2. A Shot of Haeger says:

    I cannot wait for the Ortizes to be gone

  3. Brooklyn Dodger says:


    I couldn’t agree with you more. But the fact is, I ilke Monasterios, and would like the Dodgers to be able to hold onto him. That means either a deal that keeps him in the organization and allows the Dodgers to send him down for work, or else Torre begins to use him in low pressure situations (like today), and gradually works him into more meaningful ones. If he just sits day after day, he’s not only not helping the team, but will be less than sharp when he’s finally used.

    I really like this kid, although it’s based on very little observation. You might say I love his changeup (little of it that I’ve seen) in much the same way that Lawdog and Shot of Haeger love Charlie Haeger’s knuckleball.

    I’m hopeful that with the return of Belisario and Kuo, Messrs. Ortiz and Ortiz will be gone. I was yelling at the screen today, almost from the moment he came into the game, for Torre to get Ramon Ortiz out of the game. Who knows, maybe Torre is just giving him enough rope to hang himself. Now that the game is over, I can say that it did my heart good to see Ortiz roughed up today.

  4. Michael says:

    Mark, congratulations on what has to be “Pulitzer Prize” material with this post. I really found it extremely informative and will file and save for sure. I was just looking at the schedule and beginning Saturday our next 11 games are day games. I thought this odd but I have no problem partaking of the “Nectar of the Gods” in the afternoon. 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer, …

  5. Scoop says:

    Pulitzer? For posting quotes? Wow. Nice work Mark. I really like Cliff’s quote the best.

    OK, I saw every pitch, with a room full of Dback fans, and I can say this with conviction – that was one sloppily pitched game, but darn exciting if you are a Dodger fan.

    I will say again, for the fortyleventh time – if Kershaw ever learns to throw strikes, he will win a Cy Young. Until then, he will be lucky to win 14 games. If we had pitchers who could take us directly to the set up man, this team could probably win at least 95 games. But, I don’t see who that pitcher is – ‘cept maybe Chuck Knuckles. He could do it.

    There were 14 BB, and I think there were 28 3 ball counts in that game. In the pitchers defense, the strike zone was about the size of a box of corn flakes. Ump was squeezing everybody.

    The kid is a So Cal boy and I wish him well, but Ian Kennedy looks extremely hittable. He couldn’t get his curve over at all, and his fastball is 88 mph job with a little slide to it. His out pitch is his change up, so if you sit on it, you got a t-ball pitch coming. The Dodgers hit him pretty hard.

    R Ortiz has about 5 more minutes on this team and he is history. There just has to be someone out there better than him. Again, he can be completely skipped if our starters would get 7.

    All in all, a good day and a good game. Vegetarian chili was outstanding too.

  6. Mark Timmons says:

    Joe saw Monasterios pitch in Arizona as did I and he is no mop-up guy. Right now, he is in Belisarios’ place, which is why he didn’t pitch today. I don’t think Joe is afraid to use him in the 8th.

  7. lawdog says:

    Mark wrote on another thread:


    Okay Mark, GameDay is full of crap! Besides the dancer Haeger threw exactly 2 slurves–probably sliders that had a little more break than a normal slider, but not near enough to be considered a traditional curve. Both of them were timed at 77 mph and broke exactly the same way–starting over the plate and the snapping down and away right near the knees on the corner. He threw a few “fastballs” which were timed at 81-85 mph on the gun and the ones above 82 l had a little cut in on the right handed hitter. Altogether he probably threw half a dozen fastballs. Maybe as many as 8 as he threw two in a row on one occasion.

    No way in hell did he throw any change ups. How do you change up on an 81 mile an hour fastball? Who in their right mind would want to? It would look like a bad dancer coming in in the low to mid 70s with a little dip. A pitch like that from a knuckleball pitcher would get hit 660 feet into the seats!!! It would look just like a “spun” knuckleball which is the knuckleball equivalent as a hanger. It would even have some rotation on it which is also a hallmark for a “spinning” hanging knuckleball the batter knows is not going to dart around but come in on a platter with a slight dip. When you spin a dancer it tends to come in a tad faster because you’re pushing the ball when you wanted to release it with no spin at all.

    I suggested that he might have thrown 88 mph on one pitch if the game day gun was right and the Marlins gun was wrong because the MLB Extra Innings gun has been 2 to 3 mph slower than the Game Day gun in the past and who knows which is correct. But I swear to you, I watched every pitch Charlie threw in that game like I was watching my own kid and what I’ve reported here is correct. Exactly 2 identical breaking balls with the same slider type horizontal break with a little more drop than usual breaking away from a right hander. 6-8 fastballs, usually “backdoor” fastballs because he started them off the plate only to have them cut in slightly to a right hander. The rest of his pitches were dancers. No curves. No changeups.

    Think about the idea of Haeger throwing changeups! That is totally nutso. Why would a knuckleball pitcher with an 81-85 mph fastball, 77 mph slider and a knuckler that ranges in speed anywhere from 75-65 (with most in the range of 72-69 mph) even want to throw a changeup when it would look exactly like a hanging knuckleball that had too much spin and straightened out. A spinning knuckleball looks for all the world like a lobbed pitch. And how can he fool the hitter with the same motion as his fastball when his fastball has the same motion as his dancer. Hell, his fastball IS HIS CHANGE UP! A traditional changeup with a knuckleball motion and delivery looks like a spinning “hit me” knuckler that didn’t dance.

    I think your Game Day software hasn’t been programmed to recognize or describe a knuckleball or a breaking ball thrown with no lower body push which looks like a slider but breaks a little too much both laterally and vertically to be classified as either a curve or a slider. Same with a fastball thrown with no lower body push so it has the same release point, arm speed and lack of lower body movement as the knuckleball. the fastballs that cut a little and are thrown 83-55 mph might be considered his fastball while the pitches that are fastballs but a might slower that dip a little instead of riding in are “changeups”. But if you watched him pitch you’d know it was the same pitch. The difference was an ever so slight change in velocity

    The kicker came today. I was watching Broxton throw a very fast, straight fastball which the MVB gun said was 97 mph. Vin Scully simultaneously announced to us all that the pitch had just hit 99 on the gun. Vin was not using the same gun as MLB Extra Innings. In contrast, in the last Marlins game I watched MVB Extra Innings gun announce one of Sherrills fastballs was thrown at 89 mph while a Marlin announcer said that pitch was 89 mph. The Fish announcers also said Haeger hit 85 as his top speed on a pitch that was being reported as 85 mph by MLB EI as it was delivered. Sherrill never threw a pitch faster than that (89 mph verified in real time with the Marlins announcers as it was being delivered and reported on the screen as the reading of the MLB Extra Innings gun and yet you tell me he got a pitch or two up to 91 according to Game Day. It would appear Gameday and the Dodgers have the same calibration on their guns which is 2 or so mph faster than the one used by the Marlins and MLB Extra Innings. But you tell me Game Day and MLB EI and the Marlins guns all timed Haeger at 85 maximum.

    Sounds real fishy too me. The Game Day gun can’t be accurate if the MLB and the Marlin gun have the same calibration. We know for a fact that the Dodger gun being watched by Vinny is 2 mph faster than MLB EI and the Marlin gun. But even though both guns (MLB EU and the Dodger gun) appear faster when measuring other pitchers (Broxton and Sherrill), the Game Day gun isn’t calibrated 2 mph while clocking Haeger?

    Say what???


    Very curious.

    Something is very wrong here. Particularly when you consider that Game Day has Haeger throwing imaginary change ups and curve balls in addition to the slider.

    I watched this stuff very carefully. It’s not hard to watch the pitch be thrown and see the gun reading on said pitch as it’s being made. I’ve been doing it for years. When I’ve watched Game Day summaries while a game is in progress, I’ve seen all kinds of weird stuff reported about breaks on pitches. I always just figured it was an unsophisticated software program they were using. Now I wouldn’t trust any of the data on pitches they report.

    Did you actually watch Haeger throw any of these pitches your so sure were change ups and curves? I’ll bet you didn’t. Your just taking this information, on faith, from a very unsophisticated software program being used as the “free” way to follow baseball on Gameday when they really want you to pay for a package to get better results.

  8. lawdog says:

    Here’s the quote from Mark on a post from an earlier thread which inspired that long monologue above. I had it verbatim at the top of my post but it was deleted for some unknown reason. Anyway, here is what Mark wrote and inspired my long diatribe for those who didn’t see it on the other thread:


    I went back and looked at Gameday.

    He threw 2 fastballs at 85, 3 at 84 and 4 at 83. He also threw several curves, sliders and changeups (probably 12-15 more) in addition to the knuckleball.

    By the way, I am told that Gameday and MLB Extra Innings use the same gun.

  9. Mark Timmons says:

    Yes, I watched, and I re-watched because I recorded the game. I didn’t see anything that said 88. I saw one that said 82 on MLB… All in all, I saw 7-10 fastballs, a few curves and a few changeups and sliders. When you slo-mo it, it becomes rather obvious which pitch he is throwing because you can see his fingers.

    Here’s the Gameday link to Haeger’s game:

    Gameday provides the Spd, Brk, Pfx and Pitch of every pitch.

    Maybe you have better technology than MLB.

  10. Scoop says:


    The Dodgers have played 7 games, including one yesterday, and Haeger has pitched in one of them, 6 innings in total. Could it be we are just a tad anal about all of this? Who cares what the gun said, the ERA says 4.5 in 6 innings. No big deal as far as I can see. Show me 7 innings of 3.00 and I will be impressed.

    Did anyone see, or care to comment about, the Dodger home opener yesterday?

  11. Mark Timmons says:

    On Broxton’s 97 MPH Pitch, Gameday also had it at 97. I did not hear Vin say 99, but if Gameday had it at 97, that goes against Lawdog’s theory.

    It’s no big deal to me…

  12. Bill Russell says:

    I was at the Home Opener yesterday and got a bit red from the sun again. It’s still amazes me that I can’t ever remember to take sun block when I’m leaving home for a day in the sun. The weather man said 69 degrees would be the tempature in L.A. with cloudy skies. So why pack a bottle of lotion when there’s other things more important to think about.

    I went with two other friends and we decided to play homerun derby. We each got to select 4 players using both teams and if anyone hit a homerun, the other two had to pay $20 each to the guy with the player on their list. Since I knew Kershaw was pitching, I decided to select as many Dodgers as I could quickly taking Kemp and the Foundation in the first and second rounds. I followed with Russ Martin and ended with Chris Young which I was rooting against everytime he came up. One of the other guys selected Manny and Reynolds and the third guy took Ethier. So after a long day in the sun, I only became $20 richer at the end of the contest.

    We sat in the Right field bleachers which is also the “all you can eat section”. I haven’t been out there since I was in Little League. The seating was horrible, and the food selection was limited – hotdogs, peanuts, nachcos, and all you can drink soda’s. I got to see several people ejected from the game for being idiots but out of the two bleacher sections, the right field section is the calmest. Multiple fights broke out on the left side after the alcohol started kicking in around the 5-6 inning. This was also the longest regular season non extra inning game I’ve ever been to. It ended close to 5:00 PST which was almost a 4 hour game.

    The fight leaving the parking lot was almost as bad as the fight for sitting room in the bleachers. Drunken idiots walking in the middle of the road and drivers trying to take cuts leaving the parking lot reminded me of Mr Toads Wild Ride at Disneyland.

    Most Dodgers looked like they came to play yesterday. The infield was sharp, the outfielders were into the game. Kemp was very upset about not catching the one ball off the wall but from what I saw he just mistimed his jump which caused him to hit the wall with his body before he wanted to. The Dodgers displayed power yesterday, hitting 4 dingers. The ball flys out of the park alot better during the day games then it does at night. Kershaw is still showing his inexperence of not throwing strikes and trusting his pitches. As either Scoop or Badger or Rory said, He’ll be great once the light finally comes on in his head. Even with the bad seating yesterday, it’s always fun being at the park. Great time but I’ll NEVER sit in the bleachers again.

  13. Scoop/or Badger/or Rory says:

    I was wondering what kind of fan sits in the “all you can eat” section. I sat in the right field bleachers in Yankee Stadium once for a Red Sox game. Won’t make that mistake again. The bleachers are for the drinking rowdies. And right field is the sun field, so, that would be the last place to go sit, unless of course it is April and you are in Minneapolis.

    Even Mark Grace was getting bored with the game. 3 hours and 45 minutes of 3 ball counts. I think maybe Kemp was asleep right before he went to the wall and misjudged that fly ball. Looked like he may have lost it in the sun. Maybe he just screwed it up. Attendance was 56K, so, Dogs off to a good start. If they can keep that up, no excuses for not paying for what is needed at the deadline. Well, ok, one excuse. Actually, a whole team of excuses. All wearing exensive suits, speaking in a language only they can understand.

  14. Roger Dodger says:

    Be careful folks, and do not suggest that Kershaw was brought up to the majors too early, and maybe should have spent some time there last year — to learn to pitch. If you do, Mark will have a hissy. He will call you an idiot and quote a bunch of stats on how good and effective Kershaw was.

    But the truth is — Kershaw does not have either command or control of his pitches. So, he learns in the majors, like Sandy did. But when he does learn to pitch and not just throw — he will be great.

  15. lawdog says:

    You didn’t read what I posted very carefully Mak.. I said that MLB EI timed Broxton at 97 on the same pitch Scully announced as “99 on his gun.” You must not have been watching/listening at the same time if you missed Scully saying that. It was either the next to last pitch in the game or the 2nd from the last pitch in the game. And it was a loud announcement said with a true Scully florish. If the Dodger gun is 2 mph fast (obviously is, Vin even said so a couple of years ago), and Gameday wasn’t, then Gameday should have been consistent with MLB ET and the Marlin gun. It was with Haeger but wasn’t with Sherrill? If MLBEI was consistent with the Marlins on Sherrrill but Game Day was not, then why wouldn’t Game Day be 2 mph fast with Haeger just like the Dodger gun was with Broxton?

    If you didn’t hear him say that while the pitch was timed at 97 by the MLB EI–or Gameday if they happen to be the same, and MLB EI had the pitch at 97, then there is no point in talking to you. You didn’t hear it and everyone in the room watching the game with me heard him plain as day. THey also could see the discrepancy with the MLB EI time of 97 mph. Don’t call it “my theory”. It’s a damn fact man!

    When I said Haeger might of hit 88 on your Gameday gun I was making a joke about your GameDay gun being fast on Sherrill. The Marlins and MLB EI had the pitch at 85.

    And if you think Haeger is going to throw a change up, you know nothing about the speed and delivery of a dancer or the speed and delivery of a pitcher who’s heater is thrown only with the arm (no lower body push) and can only throw 81-85 on the gun with that fast ball. When a bad dancer is going to roll up to the plate at 72-79 or so, he would have to be dumber than the proverbial bag of hammers to even try to throw one. It would be a guaranteed home run.

    I know what I saw. Charlie has 3 pitches. A very slow fastball, a breaking ball that doesn’t break much and the dancer. If he threw a pure curve in addition to his “slider” he didn’t throw one the other day. And watch you call a changeup was either a fastball in the slower regions (81 or 82) or a spinning , hanging dancer. I saw a couple of slower fastballs. I did not see any change ups. If a guy’s heater ranges from 81-85, why would he throw a “changeup that comes in at 80-81? That’s insanity!

    Hells bells man. Haeger himself said he mixed in a fastball once in a while and those were his only pitches as of last year. He obviously mixed in just two breaking balls (identical pitches) to try for a little more variety. His new breaking ball looks a lot like Candiotti’s. Maybe Hough was working with him on it this spring. Hough used to be the Dodger’s pitching coach under Malone.

    But you can’t throw much other than a bad fastball and weak breaking ball without pushing off with the lower body and you can’t push off with the lower body and throw a dancer that doesn’t hang. Them’s just the facts. And if he worked up a new pitch this spring, he’d be nutso to try more than that one new pitch (the Candiotti slider.) To try a new curve and a new changeup when the change up cannot ever be thrown effectively by the knuckleballer, even if he throws it perfectly…, well, the very idea is nutso and Game Day doesn’t know knuckleballers worth a damn!

  16. lawdog says:

    You know, at my age I don’t have time to waste my time making observations on games when I’m going to be called a liar. Mark’s implication that Vin Scully did not say Broxton hit 99 on the gun yesterday towards the very end of the game tears it! He either can’t hear himself or is a liar! Vin said. Anyone with ears heard it. But Mr. Timmons implies I’m a liar or demented for reporting it.

    I’m done here.

    Have a good life people. May all of you live long and never lose your health!

    Mark, I’ll see you in the funny papers.

    Good bye.

  17. Scoop/or Badger/or Rory says:

    Seems to me that Haeger’s fastball is his change-up.

    Where you going ldog? I know you. You belong right here with all the other misfits, so, sit back down and don’t behave yourself.

  18. mark says:

    I don’t get how when I say I don’t hear Vin say something lawdog thinks I am calling him a liar. Strange!

  19. Brooklyn Dodger says:

    In my post near the top of this thread I in no way was suggesting that Torre sees Monasterios as a mop-up guy. However, much like he did with Cory Wade two years ago, Torre is not likely at this stage to place him in critical situations, not until he gets some effective innings under his belt. He did the same with Brent Leach last year. Actually, given the paucity of work he’s had up till now, I don’t think it would be fair to place Monasterios in a critcial situation. He probably needs a few low pressure innings to get his feet firmly on the ground. Yesterday was an opportunity for that.

    And yes, Vinny did say Broxton hit 99 on a pitch MLB Extra Innings had at 97. It caught my attention at the time. Of course, it’s not hard to imagine a “7″ being seen as a “9″. So maybe Vinny’s eyesight is the problem.

    I assumed that the speed readings on pitches seen on MLB Extra Innings was the same as those broadcast by the network being watched. The game I saw was on Prime Ticket, and I thought that the reading I saw was the same as everyone watching that network, not just MLB Extra Innings subscribers. Is that not correct? Am I seeing something different than that being seen by LA fans watching Prime Ticket directly?

  20. Mark Timmons says:

    I was in my Dentists chair all morning (he has a new water treatment system and I have some new caps…. hummmm…).

    OK, Lawdog must be off his meds because he says I called him a liar. Here’s how it started:

    He said: “You didn’t read what I posted very carefully Mak.. I said that MLB EI timed Broxton at 97 on the same pitch Scully announced as “99 on his gun.” You must not have been watching/listening at the same time if you missed Scully saying that. It was either the next to last pitch in the game or the 2nd from the last pitch in the game.”

    To which I replied: “On Broxton’s 97 MPH Pitch, Gameday also had it at 97. I did not hear Vin say 99, but if Gameday had it at 97, that goes against Lawdog’s theory.”

    I had the TV on in my office, but the sound was down low and I had Gameday on one of my monitors. I did not hear Vin say that, because I did not have the volume very loud. Lawdog has suggested that Gameday is “faster” than other guns and I simply stated that since Gameday had him at 97 and Vin said he was at 99, that would go against Lawdog’s theory that Gameday was faster. This dates back to when he said Sherrill fastest pitch was 89 when Gameday had it at 91. I almost always have Gameday on when watching a game, as I can see the speed, location and break of the pitch.

    So, for the record, it didn’t even occur to me that he might be lying (Brooklyn confirmed that he heard it). I simply said that Gameday had it at 97. On the previous batter Gameday had Brox at 98.

    I don’t know what the big issue is here anyway. I just go by Gameday, because I know MLB has invested millions into it, and if you are going to use one measure, I try and be consistent.

    Actually, if you read Lawdog’s post, you will see that he essentially says I don’t know what I am talking about. And I am just supposed to accept this? Go back and read his post where he proceeds to say that Gameday is wrong and I am “totally nutso.” I have to just take that? I think not!

    Lawdog, here’s a very respected site where the guys quantify information, and here’s what they said about Haeger’s pitches:

    The breakdown of Haeger’s pitches by them on Sunday was as follows:

    57 Knuckleballs
    30 Changeups
    6 Curves
    5 Sliders

    They have a disclaimer that the info may not be accurate – NOBODY could be totally accurate on this stuff, but if you look at the site you will see that they try very hard.

    There are other sites which track Haeger’s pitches and they all say he has a curve, knuckleball, fastball and changeup, some say a slider. I’ll tell you what, I’ll ask people who know!

    What is a changeup? It is a slower pitch than a fastball, but not a knuckleball. It can be thrown in a variety of ways. I think that Haeger’s changeups are just slower fastballs, thus there is little difference and that is why they are all called changeups.

    So don’t talk to me like I’m a moron. You can disagree all you want, but don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. Your argument is weak.

  21. Mark Timmons says:


    You are probably right, but I doubt that any team could keep a talent like Kershaw down for long.

    I’ll bet if he was in ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION, he’s be in the majors.

    I don’t need stats to prove that, just my eyes!

  22. Bill Russell says:

    I want no part of any agrument but at the game yesterday they put up the MPH after every pitch on the scoreboard. One pitch that Broxton throw yesterday read 99 mph on the scoreboard. That’s all I know and as Forrest Gump says, “That’s all I’ve got to say about that”

  23. Mark Timmons says:


    The issue wasn’t whether he can throw 99 – we all know he can. I have no doubt that he did.

  24. Scoop/or Badger/or Rory says:

    One Gameday I saw on him had 9 pitches all in the 95 mph range. Not one slider, not one change up, all 4 seamers. Another Gameday I saw was the same except for one 88 mph pitch, and it said it was a slider. All I know is that if he keeps throwing the same pitch down the middle someone is going to go Matt Stairs on him post haste. He needs an off speed pitch and he needs it last year.

  25. Scoop/or Badger/or Rory says:

    One more thing -

    “What is a changeup? It is a slower pitch than a fastball”

    a change up is a “change of pace” and who says it has to be slower? If a man’s main pitch is a knuckle ball, which comes in somewhere in the 70′s, then wouldn’t an 85 mph pitch be considered a change of pace? Why in the world would Haeger throw a change up off an 85 mph fastball? That would be like saying “here, a batting practice pitch, see how far you can hit it.”

    Mark, I think you are right when you said those “change ups” that are listed are actually his fastball.

  26. lawdog says:

    One last comment and then I’m out. I won’t be back. I’ve never been this belittled outside of an elementary school yard and I’m mad as hell about it. First I’m an idiot. Then I don’t know what I’m talking about. I’m telling lies when I report what everyone else heard Vin say last night. And now I don’t know what I’m talking about and I’m “weak” in my argument when I simply report what I saw and what is obvious to anyone else who watched the game and only seems incorrect to someone who didn’t watch the game or knows beans about pitching a knuckleball and changing up on it.

    Mark, your expert–whom you seem to hold in great reverence? Reported the following pitches from Haeger the other day:

    57 Knuckleballs
    30 Changeups
    6 Curves
    5 Sliders

    That makes 98. Since he threw 116 that leaves 18 fastballs.

    Grand totals? 59 chnageups, curves, sliders and fastballs to 57 dancers????

    Are yoou kidding me? You’re trying to tell us these experts watched Haeger throw fewer dancers than other pitches. Where are these guys from, Mars?

    That’s total unadulterated bullshit and you should know that Timmons! Whoever tabulated his pitches [probably doesn’t know a knuckleball from a hot rock!

    Haeger is supposed to have thrown 18 fastballs? I counted about 8 and they topped out at 65 according to the guns available to me at the time.

    6 curves and 5 sliders? Haeger has said he doesn’t throw but one breaking ball and until this year he didn’t throw any. Exactly 2 breaking balls were thrown and they both broke a little funny but exactly the same way, and both were 77 mph. He did not thrown any curves. Nada. I watched every pitch he threw. And he threw absolutely no change ups because he’s not stupid and didn’t want to give up any more taters than he had to.
    Haeger himself said he will throw an occasional fastball as a change of pace–but he doesn’t throw anything but the knuckleball at least 90% of the time.

    Care to address my argument about how insane it would be for a pitcher who does not use his lower body in the pitch at all to throw a pitch slower than his 81-85 mph heater when it will look exactly like a spinning, hanging dancer that ain’t gonna dance or dart but instead come in like a lobbed ball that dips a little but stays up in the strike zone down the middle of the plate? Why in the hell would he want to do that unless he’d taken some money from the mob to throw the damn game???

    To even suggest Haeger would throw a changeup is felony stupid–unless he’s taking a little off his dancer (in which case it’s not a change up at all, just a slower knuckle ball–a pitch which varies in speed from pitch to pitch in any event.

    You didn’t stop to think before you started giving me a ration of crap over my analysis. And you have the nerve to call my argument weak? That’s so absurd as to deserve no comment at all. It’s weak to attack someone’s observations when you have no facts to back it up and are alleging the man threw 30 changeups when to intentionally throw just one with his stuff would be the equivalent of suicide.

    30 changeups and 18 fastballs when Haeger faced a total of 25 men the other day. That’s an average of more than one changeup per batter. 11 breaking balls of two different types and 18 fastballs to 25 men? That’s also more than one per batter on average. More other types of pitches than knuckleballs from a knucklball pitcher who doesn’t really have any other pitch that’s anywhere close to major league level other than the knuckleball he threw less than half the time? That’s nutso. Sorry. It just is. Totally nutso.

    Your guys are making Charlie out to be a pitcher who throws 51% curves, fastballs, sliders and change ups and 49% knuckle balls. Give me a frickin’ break!

    That’s so laughable that you should be ashamed to give these idiots any credence at all.

    If Charlie threw 90% dancers (as he, Hough, and everybody who’s been interviewed about his stuff that I’ve read says) out of 116 pitches, 100 would be dancers and the other 16 fastballs and the new “slider”. I saw 2 “new” sliders so that means 14 of the pitches would have been fastballs. I saw approximately 8–so I was off by 6. Must have missed a couple of foul balls that were too fast to be dancers–or else he threw 92% dancers and the rest fastballs and “sliders” which is probably more accurate. If that’s the case I’m dead on in my original observations reported on this blog.

    Tell your source to watch some video of Haeger. Anybody who watched Haeger pitch the other day knows I’m right and you’re shooting from the hip. Then to tell me Vin didn’t call Broxton’s fastball 2 mph too fast is a pathetic shot at my veracity. Your calling me a dumb ass who either hallucinates or intentionally misrepresents what I see and hear. Neither is true and after all these years you should know that.

    I’m not even going to get into Sherrill and his 89 mph fastball again. I know what I saw on the gun and what the announcers for the Fish said. Your Gameday device was 2 mph different just like the Dodger gun was on Broxton’s fastball. That doesn’t make you and Gameday right. Nor does it make me wrong. I know what I saw and heard and I was not hallucinating. Nor am I suffering from dementia. Sherrill didn’t throw that many pitches. My short term memory is not as bad as all that.

    If I needed to take abuse like this on an almost constant basis I’d just give my ex-wife a call. I don’t need anymore of this constant vitriolic crap from you Timmons, so I’m now out of here for good. As I said before, see you in the funny papers..

  27. lawdog says:

    Haeger’s heater topped out at 85 mph, not 65. Sorry for the typo.

  28. Mark Timmons says:


    You ARE hallucinating. I DID NOT say that Vin didn’t say that. I didn’t know because I had the sound on low. If you want to think I called you a liar, go ahead and think that, but that IS a lie, because I didn’t call you a liar or even imply you were a liar. I simply said I didn’t hear it. No more. No less.

    … and I don’t hold that site in great reverence. In fact, I said they may not be correct.

    I’m vitriolic?

    Well, allrighty then!

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