Categorized | Mark Timmons

The Full Report

The Full Report

The bottom of the fifth inning last night was a defining moment for Clayton Kershaw and showed why he really belongs in the majors.  After being solid for the first four innings, Clayton suddenly lost his command in the 5th and in a blink of an eye, the bases were loaded with no outs.  Leading 1-0, that seems to be a situation where you just have to “settle” for giving up a run.  Clayton didn’t settle – he just started a double play, and then got the final out to close the inning.  Clayton is young, but he’s got “it”.  Whatever “it” is.   Clayton’s ERA is now at 3.76, which puts him clearly right in the middle of all NL starters with a better ERA than Dempster, Peavy, D-Lowe (4.04), Hamels, Oswalt and Zito.   I think yesterday really showed that  the Dodgers have made the right choice in keeping him at the major league level.  There are just certain things you can’t learn at the AAA level and that includes control, unless you are going to be there for a long time.  Clayton will struggle with his control, like Billingsley does, but his stuff more than compensates.  On another note – it has been suggested that Ausmus be Kershaw’s personal catcher and I totally agree with that.  I think he pitches better to Ausmus for some reason. 

Rants & Raves:

  • During last night’s game, Joe Morgan was comparing Koufax and Kershaw and it was nice to see some old Koufax footage, but the old geezer needs to realize how high that moundkoufax_S was back then and what role that played in Koufax’s curve and fastball.  I don’t have scientific evidence, but I think the height of the mound back then was a huge advantage for pitchers with big curveballs and hot fastballs.  Koufax was a great pitcher, but it would be interesting to see if he could dominate now, like he did then.  I think MLB has evened the playing field.
  • Matt Kemp is hitting .318 with a .382 OB% – how long des he keep hitting at the bottom of the order.  This is a good problem to have.
  • I think Hudson’s wrist is hurting him.
  • Russ Martin has an OB% nearly 120 points higher than his BA.
  • If I gave out the Dodger MVP Award today it would be cut in thirds between Blake, Pierre and Kemp.  Blake and Kemp have been excellent both offensively and defensively.  I think we don’t realize how many balls Kemp runs down.   Our defense is making our pitching shine.  However,  Juan Pierre has been clutch and has mitigated the loss of Manny immensely.
  • James Loney comes up big when we need him, so many times.  I really love this guy!  What a glove and bat!
  • Broxton?  Hummmmm….  Something still wrong?
  • This will be my last post for a few days….



Just another reminder–Manny will be playing for the Isotopes beginning next week in order to “tune up” for his return to the big club from his 50 day suspension.  He will NOT be playing for Inland Empire at A Advanced as first expected.

The Isotopes beat Omaha for the second straight day 5-4.

Our good friend JASON SCHMIDT, (4.70), probably the richest player in AAA history, took another stab at pitching effectively today, and though he wasn’t horrible, he still shows he’s not ready for prime time.  He’ll probably be back to 100% the day after he cashes his last check from the Dogs. SCHMIDT went 5 innings giving up 2 earned runs on 4 hits and 4 walks.  He had only 2 Ks.

VARGAS (2.25), pitched 2 ineffective innings giving up 2 earned runs on 4 hits.  OHMAN (0.00), SCHLICTING (0.00), THREETS (1.89), and BONILLA (W, 3-5, 4.29), all pitched shut out ball for the ‘Topes.

BROWN (.308), hit his 13th home run of the year.

DeWITT (.259), hit his 14th two bagger.  CLOSSER (.300), catching for the promoted ELLIS, hit his 2nd two bagger.

REPKO (.259) continued his hot hitting going 3-6.  MAZA (.267) went 3-4 with a walk, BROWN (.308) went 2-3 and CLOSSER 2-4.

Overall, the Isotopes pounded out 14 hits.


The Lookouts ended the first half of their season on a positive note beating Mississippi 5-4.

BATISTA (W, 3-0, 3.05) pitched mediocre ball allowing 3 earned runs on 5 hits and 3 over 5.2 innings. KOSS (H,2, 2.20) actually couldn’t hit the backstop from 10 paces in the one inning he pitched giving up an earned run and walking 3 batters.  RODRIGUEZ (H,4,3.23), and GARATE (S, 3, 2..96) proved to be effective and each shut out Mississippi in the inning they worked.

4 Lookout players swatted doubles:  LAMBO (.268), his 21st, TOMLIN (.291), his 8th, BECKER (.400), his 2nd and GUITIERREZ (.167), his 1st.

SELLERS (.294), went 4-5, and TOMLIN (.291) went 2-3 with a walk. 

The Lookouts managed 10 hits overall during the course of the game.



The 66ers kicked some serious backside this afternoon crushing High Desert 6-0.

It looks like another former all-star major league pitcher who has pitched well for the big club when healthy this year has over come his aches and pains and appears ready to return to Los Angeles if today’s game is any indicator.  Lefty MILTON (W, 1-0, 0.00), earned the win looking near perfect in 5.1 innings.  He shut out the hapless High Desert Nine on 4 hits and 1 walk while striking out 3.  JOHNSON (S,1, 4.25) went the last 3.2 innings giving up no runs and only 3 hits, 2 walks while striking out 6!

Wow!  We seem to have good pitching at every level, eh?

Two 66ers players went yard:  VAN SLYKE (.297), hitting his 11th and ORTIZ (.250), his 2nd.  

ROBINSON (.301), roped is 21st double and MATTINGLY (.286), smoked his 10th two bagger of the year as well.

Three 66ers had 2 hit games:  MATTINGLY, 2-3 with a walk, BAEZ (.293), 2-4,  and ORTIZ (.250), 2-4.

The 66ers managed 9 hits altogether.



The Loons lost Sunday afternoon to Lansing 9-8.

MILLER (L, 3-3, 4.74), and BOOTHE (4.99),  both stunk up the field with their terrible pitching Sunday. SMIT (5.20), pitched two innings of shut out ball in relief. But it was ST. CLAIR (3.60) who was the only shining star getting 3 straight outs on 3 strike outs.

The Loonies might not have been able to pitch today, but they did it the cover off the ball.  All told, the Loons hit 7 doubles:  2 by RUSSELL (.281) his 21st and 22nd, 2 by HATCH (.277), his 18th and 19th, PEDROZA (.285) hit his 19th, WALLACH (.235) hit his 12th and GALLAGHER (.262) hit his 9th.

Five Loons had 2 hit games:  GORDON (.308), PEDROZA, HATCH, RUSSELL,  and BUSS (.279).

The Loons smacked 13 hits but didn’t get enough clutch pitching to win.

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

51 Responses to “The Full Report”

  1. Blue Haze says:

    I huwt someone's feelings. You encourage dissent? What an f'in joke. Come on Timmons, you are better than that. I don' agree with you on Ethier and now you want to take your ball and go home. For such a bombastic blowhard, you sure get your feelings bruised easily. It pretty obvious you really got nothing but a wood for Beltre and a noose (nose, for some of our readers) for Ethier. Well, actually you don't have a noose (nose) for Ethier, you actually just can't handle that your attacks on Ethier are pretty damn lame.

    Again, you are not well (I think you should be taking those meds, daily) and you are a little irritable (okay some may say a whinng pus-sy), so get better, have a real take and quit sucking. You big toughie!

  2. Mark_Timmons says:

    … and I hope that Andre goes on a tear, and hits 40 HR with 130 RBI.

  3. Blue Haze says:

    Nice try, now you got me laughing and it is only 7:30 out here in the West. YOu are really something else, I won't say what. Now, I admit, I didn't do debate team in HS but I was on my college debate team, so big f'in deal. Just because I won't dig up a bunch of numbers (since we know that stats can be twisted any which way, I believe you have mentioned that numerous times in your arguments with Badger), doesn't mean I don't have a solid take, I just won't take the time to dig, it just doesn't amount to anything for me. Since you are now the new stat geek, "wow have times changed", can you please let us imbeciles how many walk off hits/walks that Ethier has this year, maybe just for fun you could let us know the top 3 walk-off at bats players on the team. I have a funny suspicion that Ethier may have to be considered clutch. Here's the thing that you fail to realize, no one bats 1.000 in all "clutch situations", in fact there typically is a higher failure rate than success rate in those situations.

    Look MM, you have an opinion, I have an opinion, your opinion doesn't make you king of the hill, it makes you someone who has an opinion, PERIOD!


    Actually "Blowhard"

    Are you going to take your ball and go home when someone (majority) disagrees with you, tough guy?

  4. Blue Haze says:

    Just curious, since you encourage dissent, I am wondering how soon you will try and silence my dissent.

  5. lawdog says:

    May God be with you Mark. Tomorrow and always. You will be in my prayers.

  6. mark says:

    You can disagree all you want…

    if you are not disagreeable.

    There is a difference.

  7. Ken says:

    If there is anything that I have learned in this life it is that LIARS never use quantitative information in their communication. Keep bringing the stats Mark to support your position.

    So tell me again whose initials are an acronym for BlowHard?

    Mark – Did you not hear Morgan say that Koufax's fastball was in excess of 100 mph and his curveball was 10 mph faster thatn Kershaw's. Not that I believe much that Morgan says but a higher mound does not generate that much more additional speed, but raw talent does.

    When Manny is back Kemp should lead off for a week to see what happens.

    Hudson is tired, tired, tired. He needs a rest . That is why teams have a bench Torre. Remember what happened when Furcal rested?

    Mohack must has decided to wear out his position players now that he has been unsuccessful in his attempt to ruin a reliever so far this year. He will ruin Belisario before the year is over. Troncoso will not complain because he needs to have 100+ innings in order to be a starter next year.

    PS Keep up the humor Tom – "the richest blogger in AAA history?"

  8. mark says:

    Andre Ethier has the most walk off hits in baseball the past 2 years. SIX! Three were with Manny in the linup.

    That's really good if that's all you are looking at. But, after a huge start this year, during which I parised him (read above), he disappeared! Spin the stats any way you want, but that is what happened. He did have 2 back-to-back walkoffs, but hasn't done much since, or before (while Manny was out). Lately, he has been showing signs of breaking out.

    I realize that he could break out at any time and I hope he does.

  9. CaptainLoose says:

    The fact that the mound was about 8" higher IS scientific evidence Mark. It creates a steeper angle on the flight of the ball making the striking zone that much shorter. One of the first books I ever read on hitting was Ted Williams' book and he talked about this. That is why he said a slight uppercut is necessary to keep the bat through the plane of the flight path longer. Makes perfect sense really. I remember my early coaches pounding "swing level!" into my head until I told them Wiliams says to do it differently.

    Kershaw pitched well, had moments of brilliance and moments of lackluster. He was really bailed out twice by Loney, and, once big time on that comebacker by Abreu. A bleeder there and it's a different ballgame. Sometimes you gotta be lucky, and he was.

    Best of luck on the operation mover. In a couple of months you will be ready for 36 holes.

  10. mark says:


    Like I said, I don't know how much difference the mound height makes and certainly Sandy was the best pitcher I have ever seen, but Joe remembers the 30-year old Sandy and that's the comparison. Clayton has a long way to go, but I see growth. Sometiems it's one step forward and two steps back and sometimes it's two steps forward (yesterday). Like C-Bill, control is the issue.

  11. chucky says:

    Take care Mark and may everything go well.

    Looking forward to your return

  12. Ken says:

    Yes the height of the mound makes a big differrence and now height really makes a diffrerence with average pitchers like Chris Young because that is an angle that most batters rarely see so an average pitcher like Young can appear to be great at times just by throwing over the top.

    When the Dodgers had tall pitchers and there was a higher mound those guys, like Newcomb & Drysdale, were very very good.

    Any one who has a rule changed because of their ability is great. Chamberlain- lane & Koufax mound height, as oppossed to having the strike zone made wider – Maddux. (As I said in Feb he should have been hired by the Dodgers)

    • Maddux wants to relax for at least one season and enjoy retirement. But I have a feeling he will be back in baseball in some form next year.

      And the mound was shortened because of Bob Gibson and Denny McLain's 30 win season in 1968 mostly, although Koufax was also part of the reason I'm sure.

      On December 3, 1968, the Baseball Rules Committee voted to lower the height of the pitching mound from fifteen to ten inches and to require that all pitching mounds be sloped gradually so that pitchers will not appear to be firing from a steep cliff to the batter below. The pitcher has more leverage on a higher mound while the greater angle produced from the higher mound makes it more difficult to hit the ball squarely. According to physicists, the gear effect states that when comparing a smaller arc and a wider arc, the wider arc generates more velocity from the same force, which means that throwing off a higher mound results in greater velocity.

  13. DRomo says:

    MOund height was a big deal otherwise it would never have been changed. ALso there have been rumors and legends throughout the years that the mound at Dodger Stadium was actually even higher. Who knows if it was actually true.

    The name calling is pretty weak in here. I know we are all grown men, but it just seems a little lame. Take it witha grain of salt Blue Haze. Mark loves to stir it up and he loves to be right! Sure he has his favorites and pumps them up on HIS blog. It is his right. It is our right to this he is crazy.

    "Statistics are to the truth as a lampost is to a drunk. They may offer support but not always enlightenment" – Vin Scully

    Good luck with the surgery Mark. My thoughts are with you brother.

  14. lawdog says:

    The higher mound did create an advantage to the pitcher. I'm not sure when they lowered the legal limit but I remember Vin talking about it. He said the league didn't really enforce the rule before they lowered the mound and that the Dogs used to build theirs up to around 3 feet if Sandy or Don was going to pitch.

    I'm pretty sure the legal level was 15 inches before 1969 and it was reduced to 10 inches that year–and enforced! Sandy pitched with the mound both ways if I recall correctly. Vinny said the lower mound probably cost Sandy a couple of inches on his fastball (1-2 mph) but that it had a greater impact on a curve. When Sandy was coming down off a mound at least 15 inches high and sometimes as high as 30 inches or so he could get all of hnis weight into snapping the curve down giving him over 6 feet of snap on a good one 12-6. With the lowered mound it had more of an 11 to 5 break and was closer to a 4 foot break than 6 foot. By the end of the year he said Sandy had adjusted so well to the new height that he could hardly see any difference in the velocity or snap but the fastball was more of a riser and the curve never got all the way back to 12-6.

    Just for laughs, I tried pitching off a mound that had been built up to 24 inches to get an idea of what it was like. For me, it was like night and day. The fast ball had more pop and late movement. And the curve was a monster. Lot's more fun for the pitcher.

  15. mark says:

    If I pitched off a 24 inch mound, I am sure I could bring it in the 38 – 39 MPH Range.

    My curve would have a 1 to 1:15 break!

    I would be a legend in my own mind!

  16. DRomo says:

    I am thinking out loud here: Pierre for Jared Washburn? We would have to eat some payroll so I doubt it is possible, but would you pull the trigger on this? This sounds funny but does it make us too left handed? (Wolf, Kershaw, Washburn) I see the rumors we are looking at him and Washburn can be money at times. But I am undecided on how I feel about (maybe) aquiring him. If he comes I think it shows that Kershaw will be in the pen in October.

  17. mark says:

    I don't know how to explain this, but Sandy Koufax was the best pitcher I ever saw. I am certain Nolar Ryan was faster, but it just seems that during the last 3 or 4 feet, Koufax' ball EXPLODED! I'm sure there is no explanation in Physics that can explain this…

  18. lawdog says:

    Well what do you know. I'm so full of bullshit today–it shows you how badly old age can warp the memory. I just went and checked it out. Koufax was done in 1966. They changed the height of the mound was in 1969 (at least I got that part right.)

    So Vinny must have been talking about Koufax going from the illegal height of the mound (over 15 inches) to 15 inches when the old rule was suddenly enforced. I do remember him talking later about a new rule lowering it even further which was a big blow to pitchers like Bill Singer who liked to explode down the "hill" and how much better his slurve would bite. But Koufax just had to deal with being lowered to the legal height of 15 inches.

    In any event, the 15 inch rule was enforced in parks where the home team had good hitters and lousy pitching so he had to pitch from that level a lot of the time throughout his career. Pitching from 24 inches is like pushing yourself off a cliff! You can just let your arm fly loose on the fastball and really get on top of the breaking balls.

    Gibson's success probably made the owners believe pitchers were evolving into too dominate a force in the game and they probably lowered the m ound to 10 inches to try to get more hitting into the game. I do remember when a good ERA had to be less than 3.00. We got a pitcher from Minn. named Mudcat Grant who'd won 20 games but had an ERA over 3.00 and I thought he was bum because he gave up more than 3 runs per 9 innings. Of course, Gibson barely gave up an ERA of 1.00 and Koufax and others had ERAs under 2.00 at times. It was a different world back in the 60s.

    I remember, I was a legend in my own mind back then. If one of my pitches got belted out of the park it was the catcher's fault for calling the wrong pitch!

  19. Mark_Timmons says:


    Actually "Blog"

    I hope it doesn't ruin your day when I tell you that you can't hurt my feelings. Think what you will…

    You are the one resorting to name-calling. I disagree and post stats and reasons and you simply reduce it to a name-calling contest. I don't have to stoop to that level.

    I'd like to see you try and win a debate on the merits of your agrument, rather than name-calling. My 10-year-old can call names with the best of them.

    There's no need in re-counting what I've already said…

  20. Mark_Timmons says:

    OK, if you think I am unfair to Andre, read what I wrote on May 3, 2009 BEFORE Manny was suspended:

    "It’s one thing to lose your Mr. Softee moniker, but this is crazy! Andre Ethier is now the Dodgers Mr. Clutch! When you need a run, he’s the Dodger hitter who will drive it in. Andre has proven that he is now a middle-of-the-order hitter – I like him better at #3, but I certainly can’t argue with how well he has done at #4. Ethier IS a cleanup hitter and he cleaned-up last night by driving in Furcal from 3B with the bases juiced in the bottom of the 10th inning for his 4th career walk-off hit! As it stands right now, the Dodgers #3 & #4 hitter combo may be the best in all of baseball! The fact of the matter is that his hit (which went as a single) was off the wall, and if it hadn’t been the bottom of the 10th inning, Andre would have driven in 3 runs with that blast! Andre Ethier: Mr. Clutch and hard as nails!"

  21. Mark_Timmons says:

    And then he flopped for a considerable pierod without Manny. I mean, you can ignore his nosedive, but I won't, because I guess I am just delusional?

    "Scoreboard & Blog"

  22. Mark_Timmons says:

    Who is delusional?

    Don't put words in my mouth!

    Don't tell me how I feel!

    Don't act like a 10-year-old and call me names!

    Read what I write and agree or disagree!

    Have a take and support it with facts, not name-calling!

    It's a free country…

  23. Blue Haze says:

    Ken, not being a stat geek does not make one a liar. In fact, probably the opposite, the old saying goes

    Relax Mark, a little disagreement and you go off on a tirade. I thought we weren't all supposed to have the same opinion, that's why there is posted discussions in here. I move on, I like Ethier, he as slumped as of late, yes he is better when Manny is in the line-up, but who isn't (see Ken I don't have the stats on that but I ain't lying either), and we are in agreement, I hope Ethier goes on a tear, and he appears to be showing some signs of life.

    I am also in agreement with others on here, I hope you have a successful surgery and recover quickly, you big monkey.

    Joe Morgan, on espn telecast, said he thought that Sandy's fastball was at least 100 mph (this coming from a guy who detests the Dodgers) and that is high fastball was virtually unhittable.

    • Well Blue, you are right about one thing…. Joe Morgan still "hates" the Dodgers but can only let on to that in indirect ways so as to maintain the neutrality needed in his profession. He hates the Dodgers still like Lasorda (and I) hate the Giants still.

  24. jerry says:

    maybe kershaw was not pitching well…maybe the angels just where is a slump.. you no they were winning lots of games and it finally came to a end… i dont like kershaw he is not as good as most of you think…

  25. Roger says:

    Mark, you really need to realize you are the maker of this Dodger web talking place. You are the host (along with Miguel from time to time). But the guys are right, sometimes you pound, you drum to long and too fast.

    On this file above, Blue Haze make a remark and you file 5 posts in a row. Each one has the appearance of getting louder and louder.

    Now. You have said several times: ""It’s one thing to lose your Mr. Softee moniker . . ." Mark, you are the only one that uses or talks about Ethier or any player as: "Mr. Softee," or he is a softee, or he is soft.

    We have asked you to stop with that as a baseball term or stat. In the end, only Mrs. Ethier knows if Mr. Ethier is soft or not. That is their concern.

  26. Roger says:

    (continuing . . .)

    I know that your favorite player is Russel Martin. So, why not re-name this Dodgertalk board,

    I hope for your sake that Russell has a better second half than he has in the first half. If not, take all of the fire arms out of your house.

    In the end, this is a total team playing to win. Somehow the Dodgers have the best record in baseball, not because of one or two stars, but because everyone does what need to be done, not every night, but as a team, and win more than anyone.

  27. DRomo says:

    Well said Roger!

  28. BillRussell says:

    Good luck Mark, May the force be with you……

    I agree with Rodger, only Ms Ethier knows for sure about the softie label.
    We are all Dodger Brothers in here except for Marks son inlaw who is the Red Sox fan…….

  29. mark says:


    I only had 5 posts because this damn board wouldn't allow me a longer one (thus five smaller ones).

    I will only admit this one time:

    1. Russ Martin is not my favorite Dodger. He's about 5th on the list, and my list changes from time-to-time (for instance, my favorite Dodgers are currently Kershaw, Milton, Pierre, Loney and Martin, in that order). I doesn't bother me one bit that Russ is having a bad year (only to the extent it causes us to lose games), but I hope it bothers him.

    2. I am not afraid of being wrong, but bring the facts. I have, in the past, said very bad and very good things about Andre Ethier.

    3. I honestly do not root for a player – I root for the Dodgers. If Kershaw, Milton, Pierre, Loney and Martin all stink, but the Dodgers win, I am happy!

    4. I do admit to stirring the pot – it's part of the reason you all come back. You Love to Hate me!

    Thanks for the support and I'll be back!

  30. mark says:

    Oh, and I do admit to an irrational belief that if Adrian Beltre had stayed,, he would have been the 8th Wonder.

    Finally, I just yank your chain about Andy LaRoche. I'm neutral about him.

  31. Blue Haze says:

    Well, that is cool, I'm glad to see a number of my Dodger brethren have been getting the same impression in here. Mark, you of all people should know that I am definitely a pot-stirring guy (& maybe a pot-smoking guy, I leave that for your own speculation), and that I like to have fun. I come in here to have some fun, bask in the Dodger love, and listen to other fans' takes. The beating, clubbing, squishing and mutilation of a dead horse does get tiresome. Mark, I have always been straight forward and comments not only about the Dodgers, but also about your website. When I voiced my reasons for not having a mercenary, fish-hawk posting blogs in here, I was doing you and this board a favor. I love to point out absurdity with more absurdity, it seems to deliver the message pretty effectively to the other party. Heck, I have gotten into "discussions" with Badger, er, Capt.Loose, admittedly they have gone too far at times, never with Dodgers, just with politics, and yet I still love Badger (yeah,he has grown on me). I read posts and make my own conclusions, then post what I think, baseball or politics (not politics in here).

    So, relax Mark, don't get your undies in a wad and take offense, even when 100 posters try and explain to you why they don't agree with you.

    PS. There is no way in hell that your ten year old could match me in a name-calling contest.

    Yes we love to hate you, well actually I don't think anyone hates you in here, it is just family discussion in here. Never equate disagreement with hate, it will totally lead you in the wrong direction and to the wrong conclusion. Damn it, I'm a nice guy (I just stick to my opinion and will voice it) and I think you are a nice guy, so cheers to nice guys.

    Now, go to the hospital and let them put you under, before I come out there and knock you out for them. Peace, you big lovable monkey.

    Note to Capt.Loose: it's been enjoyable to have the civility between us and come together in Dodger Love, let's keep the love.

    Damn, I think I am going gay ("not that there is anything wrong with that" — Jerry Seinfeld)

  32. lawdog says:

    I've been known to stir the pot as well. It's a good way to get 84 posts on one thread some days–and they all make for good reading because m ost posters here are not "weak". A weak poster will scream his opinion as fact when if he'd just pay attention to what is really happening he'd see he was full of crap. Those people usually refuse to recognize reality. They blind themselves with some fantasy of their own and will fight to the death over the truth of their mistaken belief. There were a lot of those kinds on Tony's old Daily News blog.

  33. Roger says:

    Anyone watching the College W.S. tonight?

    Nothing but HRs.

    Donald Fehr is out (soon) — interesting.

  34. Ken says:

    The Full Stat Report – Update of the Best Team in Baseball

    Team Hitting NL First; MLB pitching First; NL fielding 3rd.
    NL Batting Ave – 4 in top 21; HR – Either 22nd; RBIs 3 in top 16 & 5 in top 32
    NL Pitching ERA – 2 in top 12; Wins Bills First; BROXTON 12th; KOs – 3 in top 21

    GPA – By position (At Least 150 PAs)
    Martin 6th (With a bullet)
    Loney – 12th – But 6th in Clutch
    Hudson – 2nd
    Blake – 4th
    Furcal – 8th (Slowly improving)
    Pierre – 5th
    Kemp – 3rd
    Either – 4th But DEAD last in Clutch

  35. CaptainLoose says:

    Ethier is dead last in the league in Clutch hitting? I find that one difficult to believe. There has to be someone who is worse. Who has more walk-off hits than he does?

  36. Michael says:

    Can't watch the College WS, that ping sound sends chills up my spine, dreadful. Happy dreams Mark and unless they immobilize your fingers, we expect to hear from you soon, I mean, we are all family.

  37. Blue Haze says:

    Ken, can you give the definition of "clutch" as spelled out in the stats you posted. It would be interesting to see how "clutch" is applied. I think there may a few interpretations to that term. Just curious.

  38. CaptainLoose says:

    The Rockies are looking pretty good.

    I got nothin' else.

  39. Blue Haze says:

    Damn it, CLoose, we are counting on you. Since it appears to be just me and you in here. How would you go about trying to identify "clutch" hitting? Since a .300 batting average is the gold standard in BA, if a guy is clutch, does he produce better when he has a scoring opportunity or should he produce at even a better average in those tough situations? Here's one more for the Capt., since technically every at bat is a scoring opportunity (HR can always be hit to produce runs, obviously), is a solo HR when you are tied or when you are ahead by a few runs or behind by a few runs count has "clutch"? I guess what I am saying is there doesn't really seem to be a "real definition" for what is "clutch" and how it is applied. The conclusion of "clutch" typically boils down to a gut feeling or impression one actually leaves you with, probably over a course of a career rather than any individual game or maybe any individual season.

    I posed this question to Ken and he couldn't or didn't respond with stats or anything else for that matter (Ken, you wouldn't be lying since you didn't have any statistical data available, would you? Ah, there I go again with my absurdity to answer absurdity. Forget I said that Ken, just thought I would pull your chain).

    Ah well, I thought I would give it a shot at some constructive approaches to this description of what is clutch. I guess "Clutch" is like "pornography", very hard to define but you know it when you see it.

    Peace, and to quote CLoose, "I got nothin' else."

  40. Ken says:

    I have a firm to run so I post when I can

    "Clutch" is the name we've given to the portion of Bill James's Runs Created formula that includes the impact of a batter's batting average with runners in scoring position and the number of home runs with runners on. The specific formula is Hits with RISP minus overall BA times at bats with RISP, plus HR with runners on minus (all HR/AB) times at bats with runners on. This stat is not a definitive description of "clutch hitting," just one way of looking at it."

    GPA – Gross Production Average, a variation of OPS, but more accurate and easier to interpret. The exact formula is (OBP*1.8+SLG)/4, adjusted for ballpark factor. The scale of GPA is similar to BA: .200 is lousy, .265 is around average and .300 is a star. A simple formula for converting GPA to runs is PA*1.356*(GPA^1.77).

    Unfortunately since home runs are a big part of Clutch his walk offs show how totally soft he is the rest of the time

  41. Blue Haze says:

    I have a post to run so I am firm when I can.

    That is first that I have ever heard of the Bill James' Runs Created formula (see I ain't a stat geek or a liar).

    I still think, there has to be a bigger picture to see when evaluating a player, as you indicated the BJRCF is one way of looking at it. What is lacking, which is significant, is the questions that I asked of CLoose. Basically there are times in a game, when the game is not on the line, yet a player drives in some runs, but really not at a critical time of a game. As an example, it's the 8th inning the dodgers are ahead or behind by 6 runs, Kemp hits a HR with 1 or 2 runners on base, is that a clutch HR or just an HR that had no impact on the game, or rather was hit in a less-than-clutch situation. So those numbers add to his BJRCF and makes the number look great but in reality didn't come close to identifying a player as a clutch performer.

    Come on Ken, you run a firm and must have to look at statistics all the time, so you should be totally aware of the old saying "Stats never lie, but statisticians do!" Just look at political polls to get an idea of how numbers can be complied and deconstructed to literally prove or disprovealmost anything, business and sports.

    Now, I am not to say that stats are without any merit, I think they are just one of those tools that can and should be used. There is another old saying, "a chainsaw is an awesome tool, it can cut down a whole forest quickly, however use it carelessly and it will cut your leg off". Is a chain saw a good tool, you bet, can it be a bad & dangerous tool as well, absolutely.

    Ken, hopefully you can appreciate my take on this, it just ain't cut and dry.

    Now, get your ass back to work!!!

  42. lawdog says:

    RISPy critters should be the name of a children's cereal. I may not know nutten' about things that are all RISPy, but I do know that a player who hits 30 hrs with 120 rbis and a .320 average has to be a clutch hitter even if he'd rather eat crispy cremes than drive in rispy runs.

    Moving down from there. If you it .300+ and drive in 100 runs I think you have to be considered "Clutch" no matter how many home runs you hit. Or, if you happen to be a certain poster on the old LA Times and World crossing boards, you could be "Clutch".

  43. Blue Haze says:

    I think we are finally getting to the heart of the matter, in regard to "Clutch". Nice shout to Clutchie-whatchie, LDog.

    CLoose, your stats backed up my argument about the "clutch" argument in here, which I have been making consistently for a long time now. I think that you and I come from a "players" point of view. We have both been in the dugout and probably understand how players view and approach who they consider "clutch" on their team of players. You and I both appear to have a good handle on this concept. In defense of the other side of the argument, they find comfort in their stats and may rely less on gut feelings and how a clubhouse works. I like your last sentence in particular, and it expresses the ballplayers POV in particluar, "give me some good players, get the hell out of the way so we can collectively kick ass, and to hell with formulas, there is only one formula that applies in baseball and that is who wins ballgames. SCOREBOARD is the only formula that means jackshi'ite.

    At this point in the season, I think it would be fair to say that many Dodgers have stepped up at different times to be "clutch". It beats the heck out of having one player, Manny, being the sole "clutch" performer, if that were not the truth then we would probably be in 3rd place in the NL West by now. So spread the clutch and let all have a swig from the clutch bottle.

  44. Hey guys, Mark knows exactly what he's doing. There are now like 100 comments or something ridiculous on this post. Haze, thanks for the segway man, keep teeing them up and we'll keep hittin'em out. :-)

    Its funny how in all media, even in our sacred little slice of Dodger heaven, the only stuff that really gets attention is drama, negativity, pain, and suffering. Its the reason that the mainstream media is always looking for a "drama" angle on this Dodgers team. First it was Manny not in camp, then it was (still is a bit) that we need better pitching, then it was Manny's suspension and how it would crush this team and its chemistry, then it was Torre wearing out our bullpen, now it will be Manny again and roids, etc… I'll bet if we win it this year it will be all about us being "cheaters" and our title as not legit because Manny contributed! Thank God we have played as well as we have without that clown pants!

    • Ken says:

      Torre the Mohawk plug head IS wasting certain pitchers in the bullpen. The Dodgers have 3 of the top 5 innings pitched by relievers in MLB, Troncoso, Belisario and Broxton. Only a terrrible team like Baltimore would have the other 2. Nobody else would even think about wearing out their closer like this. Weaver, the long reliever has pitched only 14 innings out of the bullpen and 20 as a starter. Weaver, The long reliever, is only 4th in innings pitched by Dodger relievers. I have argued all year, starting in the preseason, that the Dodgers need to carry more long relievers. Use McDonald and Weaver as long relievers and send Wade to the Minors. If Vargas is ever ready then send McDonald down at that time.

      And rest the starting position players more often and let the bench start some games so that they will be ready to play or pinch hit thus keeping the starters fresh and able to play in October.

  45. CaptainLoose says:

    I think I get what James is driving at, but I am not certain I agree with some of his criteria. I am not all that familiar with it, so I am not in a position to really critique it without further study.

    Home runs figure into it? That means slap hitters, guys like Pierre (hitting .350) won't score well in the clutch department. Another factor I don't see is hitting with the bases empty. Isn't starting a rally clutch? It is in my book. OBP is huge in my book as well, always has been.

    FYI, Ethier's 3 year splits leading off an inning is .329 with a .938 OPS. His 3 year's WRISP is .304 with a .390 OBP and, WRISP 2 outs his OBP is .404. This year his OBP WRISP is .351. So even with all the "soft" at bats this year, geting on base at a .350 clip isn't "extremely poor". By the end of the year, his 3 year splits should still look very good.

    And then there is the walk offs.

    Screw the clutch formulas. I'll take a group of good hitters and let the chips fall. Ethier is in the middle of my lineup even if he is in a "slump".

  46. CaptainLoose says:

    What Ken just said.

    If it's going to happen, we are still two months away from wearing this staff out. Pitching has been, is, and will be my major concern all year. It may not be Torre's though, and he is the guy who is accountable. I am just some schmuck in a chat room.

  47. Roger says:

    I just love the way Broxton gets so excited when he strikes out the final hitter in a game.

    Tonight, Mitch Jones 2 for 4, great. Loney with a bomb, Kemp really tried to kill the ball when he Ked. Martin – zip again, Ethier with that great eye, Blake knocks in two big runs, and so on. Pierre zip for 5, what is up with that?


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