We have had a lot of discussion on this board about draft picks past the middle of the first round. Roger posted a list of all our first round draft picks from the late 80′s until 2003 and man, were most of those picks horrible. So, from what I am hearing some of you are saying “don’t worry about draft picks because they are not that great.” Well, they weren’t for a while, but I am going to submit to you that it’s not the picks, it’s the pickers! Since 2002, when Logan White came to the organization, we have made some excellent picks. Here’s the list:
- 2002 – James Loney
- 2003 – Chad Billingsley
- 2004 – Scott Elbert
- 2005 – Gave it up for a Free Agent Derek Lowe
- 2006 – Clayton Kershaw
- 2007 – Chris Withrow
- 2008- Ethan Martin
Now, it’s way too early to rate our 2007 & 2008 drafts, but the new Dodger Draft Pickers have a pretty good record – It’s 75% and if Elbert continues his comeback, it’s 100%, not counting the last two, who the jury is still out on. We gave up our pick in 2005 to sign Derek Lowe and while it was a good signing because Lowe was a reliable ”inning eater” we didn’t excell bacuse of it. If we had that pick in 2005, we might have another piece of the puzzle in place. With the pick we gave up, the Red Sox took Jacoby Ellsbury. Hummmmm….
How important is a pick? In 2005 we also drafted Luke Hochevar and Ivan DeJesus, Jr. as compensation for losing Adrian Beltre. If we had been able to sign Hochevar, that would have been a nice piece of compensation. The jury is still out on DeJesus, so we still can’t call that one yet! What I do know is that Logan White has headed up the drafting and/or signing of at least 25 players on the Dodgers current roster. The more picks we get, the better his chance (and DeJon Watson’s chance) of drafting an impact player. Now if O-Dog has a career year (and he may -I’ll be rooting for it), we could win it all and that would not be a sacrifice… or if we fail to sign him next year, we may get a pick for him. Or maybe he accepts arbitration from us. This has a while to play out.
The fact of the matter is that good drafting in the first round is a key componet to a teams continual success. We have been on that path for a while and we need to stay the course. I like the O-Dog, but I hate giving up the pick, especially to the D-Backs, who have a good record of drafting as well. Ned, Logan, Frank and Company may feel that this is our year and believe he is worth the price. I’ll go with that for now.
GO O-DOG!
Excellent point. Look at all those recent first round picks! With them coming onto the Major League squad, and sticking around for a few years, we should look pretty darn good for the next few years.
Now look at this year’s squad. We have arguably the best middle infield combination in the league. And with that same move, we have added a .290 top of the order hitter. And all we had to do to get it was, well, pay the guy of course, and give up a draft pick. As far as I am concerned, this is one of the best moves I have seen McJed make.
Now, sign Manny and start looking for that other starter.
The one major concern I have right now is the number of quality starts I see in this rotation.
Read an article this morning on Manny. Thought I would post a few sentences from the mouth of Borass. BTW, this is called major league squirming. I learned long ago when someone in a negotiation starts to do your job or tell you how to do your job. Read how Borass shows his concerns and insights on “helping” the Dodgers (of course, this has nothing to do with Manny only the Dodgers):
There is no indication that Ramirez is backing down from his demands of a long-term deal. Ramirez’s only known offers were made by the Dodgers — two years at $45 million, one year at $25 million and an offer for arbitration — but Boras said he is also in talks with other clubs. The agent said the Dodgers could be in trouble if they don’t sign Ramirez.
“We know the evidence from 2008 is that with a similarly situated team with Derek Lowe and Takashi Saito on it, for half of the season, the team lost,” Boras said. “And when Manny was added, it won. The evidence is clear what you can expect in 2009.”
Boras said the relatively unchanged landscape of the National League West should also factor into the Dodgers’ thinking.
A know some of you love to disagree and deny that even an agent like Borass can make a mistake, but it doesn’t make you right, just disagreeable.
“A know some of you love to disagree and deny that even an agent like Borass can make a mistake, but it doesn’t make you right, just disagreeable.”
Gee, I wonder who you mean by that?
Manny will sign with someone and Borass will make a ton of money. That’s a fact that “some of you” just don’t seem to understand. This whole negotiation thing is nothing more than a game being played by all parties. All I have been trying to say is that Borass is an agent and is doing what all agents do. He just happens to do it better than most.
I think it will boing down to a two-year deal at $45 to $48 million with a “vesting” option based upon AB’s for another $22-24 million. In other words, if Manny gets say, 550 AB’s the 3rd year is automatic. All along, I think the Dodgers would have done that, but Boras was unwilling to move off of 4 years. If there is talk now, it’s because he might move.
Here’s what Mike Scioscia’s Tragic Illness says about the Hudson deal:
No salary details yet, obviously. I think I made myself pretty clear yesterday on this. He’s a good player, I’ll be happy to cheer for him… but handing Arizona the 17th overall pick is an absolute killer. I can’t stand the idea of tossing away picks like that. And the fact that the front office is apparently okay with that continues to sadden me.
The Diamondbacks must be thrilled, and that alone is enough to know that this was a mistake.
And you know what? I didn’t mention this yesterday, but I should have. If you really really needed a second baseman, Ray Durham could have been had for half the price, zero draft pick compensation… and coming off a superior offensive year. He’s not the defender that Hudson is, granted, but is that worth giving away a first round pick to our biggest rival? It’s mind blowing.
Yeah Ray Durham was available and would have been a typical Colletti/Sabean pick.
“More of a bench piece than a regular these days, Durham could be a useful platoon mate for a team with a second baseman more skilled against lefties than righties. The veteran, a free agent into February, did bat .303 with an .837 OPS against right-handers in 2008, not that he’s a viable everyday starter for a fantasy team even in the best of circumstances. Should Durham land in such a spot he might warrant some spot-start potential, but make no mistake, his days as a 20/20 candidate are long since past.”
Keith Law, lead analyst for Scout.com had this to say about the Hudson deal:
“The Dodgers’ signing of Orlando Hudson is easily one of the biggest bargains of the offseason.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3923017&name=law_keith
Everybody has their point of view and since we are all right fighters and we could go on and on about this if you want to.
Yeah Ray Durham was available and would have been a typical Colletti/Sabean pick.
“More of a bench piece than a regular these days, Durham could be a useful platoon mate for a team with a second baseman more skilled against lefties than righties. The veteran, a free agent into February, did bat .303 with an .837 OPS against right-handers in 2008, not that he’s a viable everyday starter for a fantasy team even in the best of circumstances. Should Durham land in such a spot he might warrant some spot-start potential, but make no mistake, his days as a 20/20 candidate are long since past.”
Keith Law, lead analyst for Scout.com had this to say about the Hudson deal:
“The Dodgers’ signing of Orlando Hudson is easily one of the biggest bargains of the offseason.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3923017&name=law_keith
Everybody has their point of view and since we are all right fighters we could go on and on about this if you want to.
Hey, I found a way to edit!
You just go back, fix what it is you wanted to and repost. E Z Peezy.
Review capability mover.
That was a nice list posted by Mark, however I see very few names better then the Allstar 2nd basemen we just aquired. When will all the snibbling end? Again, we don’t have to grow all our own talent in L.A. We are a BIG MARKET team. The whole point of playing in the Major Leagues is winning the World Series isn’t it? It’s not seeing who can find the best high school kids and college players in the draft. Yes the draft is part of a great team and building for the future but the correct goal is the World Series and we have the current talant to do it now. If the Dodger Brass feels we have a shot this year like I do then you go get Hudson and let DeWitt go play where he belongs for another year.
Mark, you should start a fantasy draft pool if this is your forte. I will help you put together some rules and help find some players if you would like. You might excel at this. I can’t promise you I can find players for this league as most people simply don’t care as much as you. I can’t believe that your tunnel vision keeps you from seeing our chances in 2009. Manny and a front line starter at the break and we’re in the winners circle.
Xanax may be another route for you to look into if the draft pool doesn’t panout. I thought we were die hard Dodgers fans and we always supported the team no matter what. Am I seeing you slip into a Royals uniform? It still has blue in it. Come on Marky, climb aboard and enjoy the year. You may endup liking it. If Hudson leaves next year, you can have you’re draft pick back.
Will the new site be “KC Royals talk”?
Billy,
1. I have never said I don’t like the O-Dog – In fact, I do. He’s a great clubhouse guy and all that;
2. It’s far from a given that his wrist will be completely OK this season… if ever;
3. What if the D-Backs get a 35 HR/1120 RBI slugger with our pick?
4. If we sign Manny, I think Chicago and the Dodgers are favorites to win the NL, so I don’t have tunnel vision;
5. I just deal in reality – I don’t like (or have the time for) fantasy baseball;
6. Ned has shown a proclivity to make “dope-fiend moves” (Jones, Schmidt, et al) and this feels like another one;
7. I am rooting for O-Dog to have a career year;
8. We may not get a pick for him if Abreu and/or DeWitt is ready next year, the market comes back and he has a career year. Arbitration could net him way more than we will be willing to spend, so getting a pick back is risky;
9. I am always aboard the Dodger Bandwagon; and
10. I see a team that can win it all in 2009 (if O-Dog is healthy) and I just want to keep it rolling. If we had another pitcher like Kershaw or C-Bill from the 2005 pick we gave up, how much better would we be?
“3. What if the D-Backs get a 35 HR/1120 RBI slugger with our pick?”
Well we wouldn’t have got that guy, that is for sure.
And what if they get somebody who falls off the planet?
What if we win the WS? Well, I would owe you 1,000 push-ups for one thing.
Don’t worry, we WILL keep it rolling. We are going to get a guy with our sandwich pick that will throw cheese.
Lastly because I have to work today and it sucks, I would prefer to talk Dodgers for a living.
Getting the pick back for Hudson if he leaves next year appears to be less risky as drafting a 40 Homerun guy (Manny) with the 17th pick. If I was betting on this, My money would be put on the smart money which is getting the draft pick back next year vs the Super stud with the 17th pick. I can’t say it enough, when you have the current makeup of the team we have, you don’t waste it on future draft picks. You add the Allstar and play for it all. We agree to disagree
Billy,
Understand, I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying I am not convinced. Time will tell.
Mark ,
I get the point. You may be right and you may be wrong. Time will tell. But the fact is the 17th pick is gone. Lets not cry over spilled milk. We pined over Andy LaRoche for 2 months last year instead of appreciating Manny’s stretch run, now we are crying over something that is already done, instead of being excited to have the best 2B in our division (possibly) the NL.
I mean no disrespect. But please lets move on. The pick is gone and we have a season to look forward to.
By the way Precious Andy is hurt again. His faulty back is acting up yet again.
This again? Mr. Negative
So far, Ned has not given up a prospect who has really “made it.”
Let’s hope that continues.
The Dodgers historically pick better with the 317th pick and beyond rather than middle to late first round picks. Thank God we got the Braves second round pick and that Sandwich. We’ll certainly do better with those than the 17th pick (with which we’d undoubtedly pick Darren Dreifdort’s cousin or Franklin Stubbs’ son.)
Oh Badger–to ake the smileys–you begin and end each one with a : like :Frank’samoron:
in between you put the smiley itself like
shock
roll
evil
mrgreen
Just make sure you start each of those keen smileys and end the with a colon :
others include ;eek; (with colons instead of semi-colons
and others I’ll post as I recall them.
We need to draft a new one:kickMcCourt’skeester:
Petition your local mountain mover and see if you don’t get results.
:barf: would be a keen smiley as well, imho.
you guys cried over Andy LaRoche? can’t see why, the guy had a lot of chances to prove himself and never did.
TrueBlue82,
What is Andy LaRoche 31 or 32?
Oh wait, he was 24 last year and has only 316 Major League At Bats.
How many chances has he had?
Let’s see how many players really make it before 25. Not Ryan Howard, Not Case Utley, Not Jimmy Rollins…
shall I go on?
If you can’t see why we cry over LaRoche, it’s probably likely you haven’t seen him in person.
Here’s how Baseball America rated him:
2004 – #8 ranked for LA
2005 – #74 ranked MLB
2005 – #5 ranked for LA
2006 – #19 ranked MLB
2006 – #2 ranked for LA
2007 – #19 ranked MLB
2007 – #1 ranked for LA
2008 – #31 ranked MLB
2008 – #2 ranked for LA
Maybe he will not be a good player (nothing is certain) and if you “can’t see why” we like him, I guess you should probably start your own Baseball Magazine because anyone who has seen him up close and personal is impressed, but maybe you are just a much more capable judge of talent.
Tell me, how many times have you seen him play (myself, I have only seen him play 60 or 70 times, so what do I know?)?
I agree with Mark about LaRoche. If he could ever put together one full year, he would show why he was our best prospect. He has the tools, but he has also had some bad luck.
I like his failed bunt with the bases loaded. If, I repeat, If he can put together a full season he may be something.
Well, when you are evaluating a prospect you can look at all sorts of things and some guys like LaRoche, really jump out at you. He has a short swing, more power to the opposite field than anyone we have had since Mike Piazza, a great eye at the plate and a good arm for 3B. Now, lots of things can happen like injuries and a guy just plateaus at a certain place and never goes further. LaRoche hasn’t had much opportunity, but all his opportunities failed due to injury. Will it change? Will he prove himself worthy of his rankings? Only time will tell. I had him pegged as a guy who would hit .280 with 30 HR, but I have been wrong before. He is still young!
WASHINGTON—After a series of closed-door talks, Scott Boras, the agent known for representing the highest-paid players in baseball, set another record for the game’s largest contract when he finalized Manny Ramirez’s $20 billion agreement with the United States federal government on Thursday. “Manny’s .396 batting average last season with the Dodgers, as well as his playoff performance, proved that he is as important to this country as infrastructure projects, health care, and renewable energy development,” Boras said during an interview, adding that Ramirez is especially satisfied with the indefinite length of the contract. “He’s promised to cut 47 hours of antics this year and to make necessary attitude adjustments in order to remain solvent. Any criticism Manny receives for this contract is simply what comes with getting a huge amount of money from the government during a time of crisis.” A clause in the contract states Ramirez could receive an additional $6 billion if he successfully saves the American auto industry
… from the Onion.
Badger
February 22, 2009
7:57 pm I agree with Mark about LaRoche. If he could ever put together one full year, he would show why he was our best prospect. He has the tools, but he has also had some bad luck.
DRomo
February 22, 2009
If my aunt had a weiner she would be my uncle.
Let it go Precious Andy is a stiff. If Manny signs with somebody else the trade was worth it.
whatever…
drivel…
Nice DRomo… nice. I agree with you.
If your aunt had a weiner she would be one troubled woman Romey. I hope this kind of confusion doesn’t run in your family.
I don’t wish injuries on anyone, especially young players. LaRoche is a talented young man, those who don’t see that are missing the point.
Oh excuse me Mark….maybe you should look back and see how he didn’t help our club to the NLCS. Crying over Andy LaRoche when we got Manny Ramirez at a time that we needed a boost to get our club to the post is a waste of tears amigo.
Bad luck on his callups being that he either had back injuries or it was his wrist or thumb. When we were ready to call him up he always hit an injury snag or when he was up he was demoted because maybe our pitching wasn’t doing to well so we needed to bring up another pitcher.
How many times have I seen him play? Only when he made it to the bigs but again I say how can you defend the crying over LaRoche thing when Manny helped jump start a team that made it into NLCS?
And if us trading for Manny and seeing what he can do gave us more resons for trying to resign him this off season and if we do in fact sign Manny because he doesn’t appear to have any other options, then the LaRoche trade makes even more sense and helps our club greater than if we held onto LaRoche because we would have gotten Manny Ramirez.
Ultimately it comes down to who would you rather have? Andy LaRoche or Manny Ramirez? Do you want to win now or do you want to see what LaRoche can do in the years to come and maybe we could win with him later? And maybe his buldging disk will heal itself? No brainer. Manny Ramirez and winning now vastly outweighs holding onto LaRoche and how many times you’ve see him play.
Are you gonna cry if indeed we resign Manny Ramirez because we could still have Andy LaRoche had we never traded for Manny? Doubt it.
But what do I know? I’m just a fan who’s only seen him play in the bigs, I don’t have a fancy website where I talk about the Dodgers all day and act like an elitest, I just come onto yours and write comments.
*DRomo, thanks for the back up.
I like the shoutbox better anyways.
Peace!
Maybe he will not be a good player (nothing is certain) and if you “can’t see why” we like him, I guess you should probably start your own Baseball Magazine because anyone who has seen him up close and personal is impressed, but maybe you are just a much more capable judge of talent.
Tell me, how many times have you seen him play (myself, I have only seen him play 60 or 70 times, so what do I know?)?
**Oh and one more thing, maybe you should try to follow your own rules (ie attacking commenters and baiting them by trying to sarcasctically belittle them)
PEACE!!
All this talk about the caliber of player we’d net with this year’s 17th slot in the first round is all totally irrelevant. He wouldn’t mature and be ready to step into star status until at least 2013.
Have you all forgotten Nostrodamus, the Hopis and the Mayan calendar? We’ll all be dead in 2012 when the earth shifts on it’s axis after coming into contact with the center of our galaxy.
Better have Hudson now as a star later when we’ll all have cashed in our chips.