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Don't drink the Kol-Aid – See a Different Game
Categorized | Mark Timmons
About Mark Timmons
When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!35 Responses to “There Comes A Point…”
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ARod.
Why not? None of these guys are ever going to pay for their steroid use. He’s a Hollywood type of personality. It might be a perfect fit.
I wouldn’t want to part with Loney yet. He likely won’t be leaving for another few years.
Actually if we don’t get Manny I have no Plan B.
Mark, no! I cannot accept the fact that the Dodgers would trade Loney.
As for Manny — I have no more tears left. I must be brave. All he cost the Dodgers was travel and per deim money the last two months of last season.
Mark and I will be in camp before Manny. I close the door on him.
We leave in 20 hours from now.
I leave in 30 minutes.
I guess my only Plan B at the moment is to hang on to all the young hitters we have as we are going to need every single one of them. At the deadline, if we are still in it, we will likely need to trade for a strong arm to help us to the finish line.
The Dbacks are going to be very good. I hear the Rockies and Gints will be improved. Should be an interesting year.
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090226&content_id=3890972&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la
It looks like it will be resolved by noon today (One way or another) .
My question is where is Manny in all this? Why hasn’t any reporters tracked him down? Ask him who he wants to play for?
I would like to see rank have a sit down with Manny (a la A-Roid and the Steinbrenner’s). I know the agents have a job to do so Manny should let them do it. But ask yourself this: If McCourt was willing to get involved in the negotiations then why not have Manny in the room?
Pure cowardice.
I still think the deal gets done eventually, but I am liking Manny less and less and hoping he doesn’t get 3 years and plays motivated. Prove to me you can play hard all season with the dominance you showed the last 2 ½ months of 2008. At 37 years old, prove to me you belong having more time in the Dodger outfield.
Trading Loney makes no sense to me. If we are building then we have to trust the pieces instead of giving them away one by one and return to our situation for the past twenty years. Trading Loney then creates a first base issue. Blake’s contract of three years is too long. He will go down before that. Doug M. is a good bench player but not a starter of Loney’s caliber. Loney to me looks like he will be a Mark Grace type of player.
GO DODGERS!!
If the issue now is deferred payments, then it sounds as if Manny accepted the offer otherwise. If it truly is deferred payments then I take back some of my Manny venom. Deferred money is being used to pay Andruw Jones not to play. Money should not be held back in a short contract when Manny actually is playing. I guess if we have to defer we can’t afford Manny.
GO DODGERS!!
I had a thought, if Borass was the one that came up with the idea of a second year PLAYER option then it seems that MAYBE Borass is trying to get this settled and it is MANASS that has the ego and is wanting the three year guarantee. I can not believe that it is just the deferred $15 million that is holding this up. Maybe we are thinking bad about Borass and it is really MANASS that is being the Ahole. That would reinforce the idea that he is an Ahole and that his personality is out of control.
I am sick of the whole situation (as is the press and everyone else), let’s move on, but where?
Pierre in left field the whole year, no big gun to help the offense, trade the future (Loney) for a big salary, big gun.
What are you ideas? Lets start thinking of a GOOD PLAN B.
I will be in Arizona in a few weeks and am looking forward to the reports on the “ins and outs” of going to the game.
Peace and hope
GO DODGERS
Harold
Right on point!
The terms are wrong for any deal for any player. Too much economic risk is placed on the player when a possible 25 mil is deferred to years 3 through 5. If a player has to finance the club then either he should own part of the club or the club should be sold to someone who can afford the operatons.
Step transaction theory – Frank wants Manny to help him finance his new house.
manny is like a kidnapper ..he is holding us for ransom.. dont pay.. rich just get richer…no ball player is worth what they get..
I cant believe your defending McCoupons, Mark
The guy is Fuc.ing cheap, what’s with all the deferred money?
A real American, buying everything with credit..
That’s why our economy is in the shitter.
Our payroll is at 80 mil. and he still want’s to save money this year
Complete bullshit..
FU.K Him!!!!
1. If they trade Loney I will probably stop following the Dodgers. Well, probably wouldn’t go that far but I’d be pretty PO’d.
2. This is starting to get ri-god-damn-diculous.
3. Really, McCourt? Deferred? Just pay the guy for one or two years, then that money will be free to tie up the guys going through arbitration since everyone will still be doing so in three years.
4. I don’t mind Pierre as a player, he just doesn’t fit into this team right now. I would love to see us trade him somewhere where his talents will be useful. Might not be an OBP machine, but he works his Manny’s Agent off and gets himself into scoring position.
5. I don’t really have anything else, I just didn’t want to leave it at 4 points.
I agree with Mario. This is a future hall of fame player we are talking about. So far he hasnt done anything wrong in a dodger uniform,what he has done is put up monster numbers and made players around him better. Manny is 37 and is still one of the best players in the game and “so far” he has done it clean. It just blows when the money is there but the dodgers are probably saving it for a bust like they have done in the past. Those players are the ones that get the big $$$ from the dodgers.
I’m trying to clean up my desk so I can make the Cameltoe trip. I am missing all the good stuff it appears. Hopefully the next time I check in here this mess will get cleared up. I thought the last offer for for $25 million for the first year was with no deferred money and now I’m finding out that they want Manny to finance the team. What if your boss came to you and said “we’ll hire you for $40 dollars per hour but you can only have $20 per hour now and the balance paid over 3 years. I would think that company is in trouble. Anyway McCoupons and McCheap and pretty funny names. How about McFoodstamps? I am beginning to see both sides but I just want this thing put to bed. Peace
I don’t want to defend McCheap but he does not know how many people are going to come to the stadium this year. How many people are NOT going to be able to afford the $200 to see a game. People may want to spend $10 (or $40 for family of four) and go to a movie instead. If the Dodgers draw another 3 million then we are reacting appropriately but if suddenly attendence drops to 2 million then he will be in major financial trouble. Remember McCheap bought the team on the cheap and is playing a balancing act financially. Franchise is not in trouble but I think McCheap is acting like a small market team when he is in a large market. When does the Fox cable deal run out??? That will be the key and is the key in Boston and New York (financially that is). McCheap is playing the game very conservatively and as a person who does this for a living PART of me is saying he is playing it right. As a fan I think he may be playing it wrong.
Those of us who cant afford to spend that $200 to go and watch a game can do it in deffered payments right. I mean thats what frank likes to do.
TDF
Intellectual consistency always discloses who is wrong!
Now both sides are wrong. The only money that should be deferred is incentive money and incentives contracts are appropriate in this market. 20 mil a year plus incentives. Get it Done Ned!
I think Manny is right to not want the money deferred. I officially apologize! If we offered the initial 2yr/$45 million before we deferred Andruw Jones’ contract we should have the budget to pay the $25 million this year or at least a larger portion. Either way the deal is there and it is up to Frankie to make it happen.
All this trading Loney talk is wack. It isn’t happening no way no how. It cracks me up to hear fans say ” If Loney is traded I won’t follow the Dodgers anymore” That’s ridiculous. As if that is your breaking point. I love Loney as much as anyone, and always have, but Loney is Dodgerfans breaking point? Trade Piazza, Pedro Martinez, & Paul LoDuca but James Loney? Oh God NO!!!
Dougie Man-KAY- Vich is not taking anyones job it is just a bench guy trying to catch on. Relax guys. I thought we were smarter than that?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/27/manny.dodgers/index.html?eref=T1
I have completely flip flopped here! If Manny doesn’t get signed this weekend it is all on McCourt.
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!
SHOW ME THE SPLASH!!
SHOW ME THE PLAYOFFS!!
SHOW ME A RING!!
The more information that leaks out about this offer to Manny, the more I am coming to the realization we are not going to see Manny in a Dodger uniform again.
I apologize for defending the McCourts this time around. They F’d up this whole deal up.
Th e Splash you hear is the dread lock wigs falling into the toilet!
What’s Plan B?
Plan B ?? Mark and I will be in Dodgerville and this Monday have a 9:17 A.M. T-time in the batting cages. The Dodgers are supposed to have an “A” level coach there to watch and see if he wants to send us to the minor league camp.
Plan B is Juan Pierre. Maybe Repko might get a shot.
Abreu might have been a good option. But the arch town rivals got him.
Hey here’s a surprise, Tony Abreu injuried his groin during Fridays loss to the Mariners. This guy is more fragile then Nomar.
I guess we can count out Estes as one of our surprise starters this year. Fans were chanting for the return of Bret Tomko after Estes yeilded 7 runs in 1 1/3 innings on Friday.
Why does Ned and Frank have to defer Money? Can’t we just put an end to this maddness and begin the spring with a hitter we desperately need. We already have a weaker pitching staff, do we also need a weaker offense to begin the year? Frank, if you can’t afford the team, sell it to someone who can. The fans deserve better.
Oh I know, why bid against ourselfs? and Frank and Ned are playing this perfect. I am so sick of hearing this crap. Have we ever hear of players signing for deferred money? What a load of crap. Off to Cameltoe Ranch… Peace
Bill I agree – just pay the bucks. However, deferred I guess is not that unusual. A-Rod has deferred money I believe from both the Yankees and Rangers. Mr. McCourt might be preparing for the worse and that would be fans staying home. As a business you don’t burn through your cash and expect to stay around in this credit problem economy.Deferred payments is the new line of credit in this economy. But I still think we must have the bucks to just pay and get it done.
GO DODGERS!!
By Dylan Hernandez February 27, 2009 Reporting from Scottsdale, Ariz. — The Dodgers offered Manny Ramirez a two-year, $45-million contract that included a player option to void the second year.
Ramirez’s agent, Scott Boras, countered by proposing a two-year, $45-million contract that included a player option to void the second year.
Anybody still think old Frankieboy isn’t playing dumb ass head games with Boras and Manny ?
He should do us all a favor and sell the team to someone who wants to win.
DRomo has it right . Frankieboy neverr had any intention of signing Many. He just wanted to play with is head, make Boras look bad, and keep the fans on his side.
In this day and age of 0% interest on Government T-Bills, Frankie is no longer dealing in good faith. He will find some lame excuse not to sign Manny and we will be a .500 club this year.
FUCK YOU FRANKIE MCCOURT!!!!!
I just read on MLB Network that John Heyman is reporting that if the Dodgers remove the deferred money Manny will sign the contract. If this is true McCourt is going to lose this battle with Boras and with the LA fans. In my opinion Boras now has the upper hand.
I agree with Lawdog regarding McCourt. He needs to go back to the East Coast and sell the team to someone who can afford to run with the big boys..HE has a “small market wallet” in a “big market city”!
Still love my Dodgers. Hate the owner but love the players!
I thought that Frankie was an overt liberal. Maybe he is just rethinking his position and trying to save money in order to pay his higher taxes during the next 4 years.
Maybe he is just trying to push expenses into future tax years when the new Obama tax rates kick in? Does he regeret his Malibu purchase now that Obama wants to phase out mortgage interest on balances above $250,000 for rich people?
Maybe his players will want to renegotiate their contracts and not donate to Frank’s charity now that charitable contribution deductions will be limited. Maybe all of the players will negotiate hire base pay next year because all of them will be in a higher tax bracket and then we will have to pay more for tickets in order to pay the player’s higher income taxes.
Maybe he has become a conservative and does not want to spend like the new Democrats. Maybe he is trying to filibuster the Manny/Borass spending spree.
Maybe he is just a cheap bass in over his head.
According to Tony Jackson the deferred money was not the issue. Boras came back with a $55M demand for two years because that would match A-Rod’s $27.5 per year. That is all in their heads. A-Rod is not worth $27.5M but is worth more than Manny because he can catch the ball and is younger.
Also apparently deferred money is not a new issue. It has been part of earlier negotiations with Manny. The issue is not with money or deferred money. The issue is with Manny and Boras’ heads. They seem to think the baseball universe rotates around Manny. It doesn’t as would be suggested by no other team having made him an offer. Therein lies the problem. Manny’s head is just a big risk. Maybe worth taking for a year or two at most but no more. There is no way Manny will triple his output from last year when he was kicked out by the Sox. Also there is a strong possibility that at $25M he will sulk because no one appreciates him. Then, go to Japan and sign a long term contract.
I’m not sure why it is OK for Boras’ to play hardball but not for Mr. McCourt. He has provided more than enough money for a MLB team payroll. It is not his fault poor decisions were made. – Schmidt, Jones, JP, Nomar, etc. I hope the Manny thing is soon over but I don’t want the team to roll over and play dead just to placade Manny.
GO DODGERS!!
I think if Frank is just using a “low ball” tactic. He starts low (relative term) offering most of the money deferred, then he can negotiate upwards on how much money will be deferred. Don’t worry Frank is still negotiating and has not actually blown off Borass. It is called hardball, I am not arguing one way or the other that we need Manny or not, it is the matter of negotiating and at this point, this is the tactic that McCourt is using with Borass. Also, don’t think for a minute that Frank has forgotten about the last huge Borass FA OFer (A. Jones) they signed, that has to be figuring into this process.
Ken, whatever it is, one thing is for sure McCourt is obviously concerned with how he is going to do on gross revenue this season and the next and the next. The economy is a concern for all the teams. Yes the Yankees went nuts, but they always do and have the means to do so. I am sure McCourt is also watching the political scene and reacted to it just like Wall Street is reacting to these “changes you can believe in” decrees coming from DC.
Rough times ahead and hard to make long term investments and commitments, so McCourt is doing what any business owner will do, he is trying to get the best deal he can for the best price and terms. At this point, he is worried about hurting Borass or Manny’s feelings apparently.
It may be that Borass just said, by his offer, that if Frank is going to pretend to agree on Price and then offers Terms that are inconsistent then Borass/Manny will just start over with a new higher Price with the implied message that Frank is cheap so Manny will ask for too much and they can restart the negotiating and compromising. As a result Frank said ok lets start over because he can not afford Manny unless there is a significant deferral.
I will always believe that all contract years with Manny should include incentive clauses, that are deferred, to appropriate allocate risks and rewards.
All of this garbage may really be caused by Schmidt’s contract anyway. He should be the player that has his contract renegotiated to include deferrals so that the Dodgers can afford Manny.
What McCourt just pulled today is absolutely shameless. Reminds me of a certain type of client who’d want thousands of dollars of work done yesterday. When we’d get around to talking about the retainer he’d want to pay me on “the dollar down, chase me around plan.”
Now it’s one thing to try and stick if to an ambulance chaser. Lawyers are pretty much fair game. Nontheless, I’d throw his ass out of my office and send him to a real shyster. To treat Manny this was is absolutely shameless. Even if he signs now, no way do we et the “Happy Manny”. If Fred had this planned why didn’t he sign one of the other sluggers. Now we’re going to have to play small ball and we won’t contend.
By not showing Manny the money Frank will probably lose money in these hard economic times.
Hey Roadies, are you there yet? You were supposed to call when you arrived so I wouldn’t be worried. Doesn’t look like you will be seeing Manny during your stay, but I am eagerly awaiting your first hand reports.IN-N-OUT!
http://www.truebluela.com/2009/2/28/775979/100-millon-payroll
Nice post at True Blue LA
I agree with you, Ken, on Manny deals relying heavily on deferred money for achievement clauses in his contract.
Just off the wire: Roger and Mark have been charge with drunk and disorderly charges in Glendale, AZ. A drunken Mark was overheard to be stammering out something about having to get to CamelToe before morning.
Developing…