Bill Shaikin of the LA Times has a piece today where he discussed the fact that the Dodgers offered Trevor Hoffman a one-year deal (my greatest fear is that he will accept it) and he also wrotes this about the Manny Ramirez stalemate:
The Dodgers will meet or beat their season-ticket sales from last year even if they do not sign Ramirez, chief operating officer Dennis Mannion said.
The club projects to sell about 24,000 season tickets, the same as last year, he said. The sales pace is ahead of last year, he said, citing the Dodgers’ first trip to the NL championship series in 20 years and the price freeze on season tickets.
Renewal payments are due Friday, and Mannion said he does not expect the uncertainty over Ramirez to impact most of the roughly 10% of accounts still outstanding.
“We’ve had plenty of ‘Hope you sign Manny’ but not ‘You won’t see a penny from me if you don’t,’ ” Mannion said.
Still, he said, the Dodgers probably could sell another 2,000 season seats if they do sign Ramirez. At the average ticket price of $29.66, according to Team Marketing Report, plus the roughly $17 that each fan spends on food, drink and parking, those additional 2,000 seats would translate into about $7.5 million in gross revenue.
Do the Dodgers want Manny? Yes, but on their terms and their terms were better than anyone else’s terms, because I guarantee that if Borasss had offers even approaching the $45 million over 2 years that the Dodgers offered, it would be leaked to the presss. We will be a better team with Manny and we will put more butts in te seats, but that’s not the issue. The issue is winning, because it makes no sense to spend $22.5 million to make an extra $7.5 million. DO THE MATH! If McCourt signs Manny, it’s to win, not put butts in seats!
Jason Stark of ESPN.com had this to report:
As hard as Scott Boras may be trying to portray the San Francisco Giants as serious bidders for Manny Ramirez, it’s even harder to find executives in baseball who believe that.
According to one source familiar with the Giants’ thinking, just about every recent rumor connecting the Giants with Manny is “unfounded” or “baloney.”
“If a million things came together over the next few weeks, would it be possible? Maybe,” the source told ESPN.com. “But for where [Boras] is right now and where the team is right now, it doesn’t make sense economically and it doesn’t make sense for how the team fits together.”
Sources tell ESPN.com that in a conversation with the Dodgers last Friday, Boras continued to talk about five-year and four-year deals worth upward of $25 million a year. That caused the Dodgers to turn their attention away from Ramirez and back to the bullpen market, where they’re pursuing a group that includes Trevor Hoffman, Juan Cruz, Dennys Reyes and Guillermo Mota.
And the Giants, according to multiple sources, have no interest in pursuing Ramirez or any other free agent looking for large dollars and multiple years. Even reports connecting them with free-agent third baseman Joe Crede, another Boras client, have been exaggerated, sources say.
Industry sources estimate that the Giants’ payroll, with no other additions or subtractions, is already likely to be north of $85 million — and would be more than $90 million if you include deferred money owed to Barry Bonds. That’s already significantly higher than last year’s payroll (about $77 million) and close to the highest in team history.
So signing Ramirez would push them well beyond $100 million. And multiple sources indicate there is virtually no scenario that would allow them to maintain a payroll in that range.
“They fit because they need the bat,” one NL executive said. “They’re one hitter away from being a real good team. But how do they go to $100 million to add that bat? I don’t think there’s any way that happens.”
DODGER NOTES:
- According to Diamond Leung, the Dodgers will host their second annual Winter Development Program next week. Here’s the list of invited players:Pitchers (8):
LHP- James Adkins
RHP- Jesus Castillo
LHP- Scott Elbert
LHP- Victor Garate
LHP- Brent Leach
RHP- Josh Lindblom
LHP- Jacobo Meque
RHP- Travis SchlichtingPosition Players (11):
INF- Tony Abreu
INF- Josh Bell
INF- Ivan DeJesus
C- A.J. Ellis
INF- Austin Gallagher
OF- Jamie Hoffmann
OF- Andrew Lambo
C- Lucas May
INF- Russell Mitchell
OF- Xavier Paul
OF- Trayvon Robinson - No more Angel in the Infield – He’s a Damn Yankee!
You left out a lot of stuff doing your “math”. Do you do payroll the same way? No wonder you are fighting in parking lots with employees.
First of all, Shaiken is talking about season ticket holders not how many b.i.s. Manny, and the obvious winning with Manny, would mean over the course of the season. He has no way of knowing what signing Manny would mean with increase in both season tickets sold, and extra tickets sold over the course of 81 games. I estimated in an earlier post we would draw 4 mil with Manny in uniform. I stand by that.
Secondly, as has been mentioned here numerous times but you fail to acknowledge in your math, the revenue generated by Manny sales would add another few million in the Dodger pockets.
As has been proved on various sites, these super stars pay for themselves and Manny is no exception. He is worth the money the Dodgers have offered him, you know it, I know it, MLB owners know it and the American people know it. Now it’s just a matter of length of contract. All of this will settle itself out in the next week.
I think Hoffman would be good with us.
He could mentor Broxton and Wade.
and he was pretty god last year after the all-star break.
and if he sucks we can just put Broxton back in and close.
not a big risk..
also hell’s bells in the ninth, manny in left, its gonna be alot more fun going to the stadium…
Badger,
It wasn’t my math. I was just reporting what Shaikin said, but I still think it’s all about winning, because ultimately if it’s Abreu in LF or Manny in LF, the butts will be there if we win!
Everyone knows that Borasss is trying to drive up the price and THERE IS NO WAY THE DODGERS WILL BUDGE. If they would sign Manny to 4 years, they might as well have signed Tex. By the way, there is only one player in baseball today, who has hit more HR than Tex in his FIRST SIX seasons and it’s not Manny Ramirez! It Albert Pujols. Not A-Rod, not Griffy. I am on record that I’d rather have Tex than Manny – Tex is coming into his prime and is 9 years younger. Manny is past his prime. No way we up our offer!
Mark, you are the one who told us to DO THE MATH! All I did was – the math.
I don’t think the offer needs to be upped. I don’t think it’s about how much money is on the table, I think it is about the length of the contract. Borass wants $100 million for 4 years. That has been talked about since the end of the season. What we want is Manny for two years because we think we can get the title with him at 37 and 38 years of age. I have said repeatedly that a third year should be added if that will get the deal done. This is a window of opportunity thing, and has absolutely nothing to do with Teixeira. Tex was never coming here and I think we all know that.
Does Hoffman have anything left in the tank? If we wanted a mentor we should have hired Maddux or Hershiser. If Trevor can still get people out, then I am ok with it as long as the price is right.
It was one of the new commentators for the MLB channel that said Manny puts at least 5000 butts in the stands when he plays. At $50 a pop for those fans–you’re talking over $20,250,000 just for home game revenue. These are conservative figures.
And if we lead our division most of the way and play well into the playoffs–the payoff Manny brings is significantly higher still.
Pay the man and let’s move on.
Without Manny, we are a .500 club and probably don’t sniff the playoffs. Maybe with Dunn in the lineup–we back in since the division is weak. But Manny is the Man. Manny is the straw that stirs the Dodger’s drink. To not put another offer before him with days until the catchers and pitchers report is felony stupid.
Here’s the poop on Hoffman. Anybody really want to waste around $10 million next season for THIS???
“When Hoffman first came into the league he was a fireballer, throwing in the low to mid 90’s with a tight curveball. Hoffman’s repertoire now includes one of the game’s best changeups, a more modest four-seam fastball in the 84–88 MPH range, a slower cut fastball that moves in towards a left-handed batter, and he even mixes in a slider and a curveball a handful of times a year for good measure. However, for all intents and purposes, Hoffman is a two-pitch pitcher, alternating between fastballs and changeups. It is the arm action on the change up and the late sink just before it reaches the plate (almost as if someone was pulling on a string attached to the pitch) that has allowed Hoffman to be as successful as he has been over the years.
Trevor Hoffman learned the change up, which he actually throws with a palmball [6] grip instead of a circle changeup grip, from teammate Donnie Elliott during the 1994 player’s strike and began using the pitch in 1995 when he did not have his best fastball because he was pitching most of the year with a torn rotator cuff. Hoffman opted to pitch through the pain and have surgery in the off-season rather than end his season early. He came back the following year to throw in the low 90′s, with a tight curveball and that terrific changeup, which reportedly made his fastball look as if was going 110 mph (180 km/h). The key to the pitch, Hoffman explains in the September 11, 2006 edition of ESPN The Magazine, is how he pinches the seam of the ball with his thumb and index finger as he releases it. He throws the changeup with the arm speed used to throw a fastball, the hitter thinks it’s a fastball, it looks like a fastball. But when the hitter starts to swing, the ball is still yards away from the plate. In this article, writer Buster Olney attributes Hoffman’s initial loss of velocity and torn rotator cuff in 1995 to horsing around at Del Mar Beach near San Diego during the strike.
As recently as 1998, Trevor’s finest season when he finished second in Cy Young Award voting and seventh in MVP voting, he was throwing his fastball in the low 90’s. However, his velocity has dropped off in recent years. His velocity has actually improved since he had shoulder surgery that forced him to miss most of the 2003 season. Before that procedure, Hoffman’s fastball had slowed to the mid 80’s. Despite his diminished velocity, Hoffman’s strikeout numbers remained very good, striking out more than a batter per inning every season up to 2003 and striking out nearly that many in 2004 and 2005. The 2006 season, though, saw his strikeout numbers fall off noticeably.”
Sorry guys, a 41 year old guy with an 83-88 mph fastball mixed with an 83-85 palm ball is not the closer you want out there with the game on the line if you consider your team to be a true contender. You’re better off with Jamie Moyer who was much cheaper and we passed on.
The Dodgers also made an offer to Dennys Reyes on Tuesday night, according to sources, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reported. There are also indications the Dodgers are pursuing a right-handed set-up man, believed to be ex-Dodger Guillermo Mota, and are known to have contacted the agent for free-agent right-hander Juan Cruz.
Deja-vu all overagain. Reyes maybe not a bad choice but Mota is getting too old – 36 this seasson. Surely we have someone who can do what he could do. I like Cruz but he would cost a draft pick and probably won’t be signed.
It seems Troncoso might start the year at AAA as a starter so won’t be available for relief.
I think Ned is getting the rest of the slots filled- IF, RP, ST and then will say this is what we have for Manny. Take it or leave it. The roster should get a bit stabilized soon so the world can’t wait on Manny. Manny is not a Jody Reed but has overplayed his hand. His demand is diminshing not growing. He is not worth three times Burrell, Dunn or Abreu. Somehow Boras will have to come to that realization that his demands are excessive.
He most likely should have taken the Dodgers’ first offer. He was more than enough.
Juan Cruz and Ben Sheets together would be huge additions to our pen.
Cruz is about 30–same as Sheets. Cruz’ fastball tops out at 99 mph on the gun. He has a dandy hard slider and decent change to mix in with the heater.
Reyes is a “crafty” lefty who’s a .500 lifetime situational reliever. Translation–he has NUTHIN’–no stuff. Just craftiness.
Oops–I didn’t mean to demote Sheets to the pen. He needs to put on his best “Ace” shoes because he’ll have to be our #1 starter.
The talk up in NoCal (on KNBR 680) is all Manny, all the time. It boils down to the fans want him in a Gnats uni and the fish hacks don’t want the Gnats to touch him. This afternoon, Gnats’ President Larry Baer (not sure of last name spelling) was interviewed and said they of course have interest in Manny, but it would have to be an “exact fit” salary-wise. Whatever that means was not specified. However, he did sound to have a genuine interest, maybe if only to drive up the price for the Dodgers. You have to admit, the Gnats could go crazy with an official “ManRam Night at AT&T Park”, ah the promotional spin-offs could be endless for San Francisco”. Me still think the Dodgers are in the driver’s seat in this negotiation. I predict the Dodgers will ultimately sign Manny for 3 years at $70 mil (when it is all said and done, mark it down). Then he can have an average annual salary which is greater than what Teix just signed (ego stroke).
I read that Manny isn’t crazy about the weather nor the picher friendly park in S.F.. I think the gnats talk is all smoke.
3 at 70 sounds about right.
1 year–25.5 million dollar deal for Manny?
The more I think about his situation, the more I think he just might want to take what he probably would have received in Arbitration and take a chance on an improved economy next year. Virtually every wealthy person I know was heavily invested before the market infarcted just before the election–all of whom are now out of the market and scared shitless as to what will happen to the global economy in the next 9 months are so if Obama doesn’t pull a rabbit out of his hat with his stimulus package.
When the rich get skiddish, it’s probably best to take short term money and run–hoping a better investment climate may return when next year’s free agent market begins.
I saw Juan Cruz a lot this year. He walks too many, but his stuff is electric.
And, he hit .114 in limited at bats so he could take Andruw Jones’ spot at the plate.
Dodgers calling Boras’ Giant bluff on Manny
By Gerry Fraley – SportingNews
4 hours, 8 minutes ago
A few days after the Los Angeles Dodgers expressed a desire to talk with free agent slugger Adam Dunn, word filtered out of Denver that San Francisco was “quietly … aggressively” pursuing free agent outfielder Manny Ramirez. Scott Boras, who represents Ramirez, must have been getting nervous.
Boras excels at creating a market where none exists for his high-profile clients. Boras should go into the negotiators’ hall of fame just for his fleecing of Texas owner Tom Hicks in the Alex Rodriguez negotiations. Boras lured Hicks into bidding so avidly against himself that the Rangers’ final offer was $100 million more than the next-highest bid. Hicks bought into Boras’ talk of a “mystery team” being ready to make a staggering bid.
If form had held, the next step would have been the Dodgers leaping into action, repenting for their ways and making a bigger offer that would enable them to bring back Ramirez.
Not this time.
The Dodgers could very well keep Ramirez, but it will be on their terms. They will not panic at the mention of a potential showdown with the hated Giants over Ramirez. The Dodgers are in control, putting Boras in an unfamiliar position.
Man I love talk like that.
GO DODGERS!!
I’m tired of rehashing Manny’s bad attitude over and over and over again. So Since I will never agree with Mark on this subject I will just compliment him on the cool picture he has posted for todays blog. I wouldn’t mind putting that picture on my truck. That would shut up a few neighbors in the hood.
It sounds like Hoffman may be wearing blue next year, we just don’t know if it’s Brewer blue or Dodger blue.
If the Dodgers do decide to go the Adam Dunn direction, I am hoping that it also means O Dog in blue. But Knowing the McCourts, it will just mean another Malibu Estate.
While we wait for the other shoe to drop regarding Manny and our pitching staff, I thouoght you’all might get a kick out of this article:
This was emailed to me by my mathematics professor friend from UCSC who warned me to get all Ruth’s investments out of the market just before the market collapsed in the fall. Had she stayed in the market she would have lost over $200,000—or half her 401k. Say what you will about it taking money to make money; having dodged this bullet-she won’t go trusting the bandits on Wall Street again anytime soon.
Can you believe the Russian Mafia got ripped big time by Madoff? Say what you will about Madoff, but you have to agree he has guts! To do this to the Russian Mob and the Columbian Cartels puts him in a position I’d never want to find myself in. Ever!
Doug Kass
01/07/09 – 11:05 AM EST “It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” — Mark Twain
I spend the most time every year preparing just one column, my annual surprise list. As you may well know, the most recent surprise list was our sixth yearly compilation. These surprises are not intended to be predictions but rather events that have a reasonable chance of occurring despite the general perception that the odds are very long. I call these “possible improbable” events.
What follows is my most unusual surprise (No. 1).
The Russian mafia and Russian oligarchs are found to be large investors with Madoff. During the next few weeks, a well-known CNBC investigative reporter documents that the Russian oligarchs, certain members of the Russian mafia and several Colombian drug cartel families have invested and laundered more than $2 billion in Madoff’s strategy through offshore master feeders and through several fund of funds. There are several unsuccessful attempts made on Madoff and/or his family’s lives. With the large Russian investments in Madoff having gone sour and in light of the subsequent acts of violence against his family, U.S./Russian relations, which already were at a low point, are threatened. Madoff’s lawyers disclose that he has cancer, and his trial is delayed indefinitely as he undergoes chemotherapy. — Doug Kass, The Edge, “20 Surprises for 2009″
As you will see, surprise No. 1 already appears to have been proven prescient. According to an article in this morning’s edtion of The New York Times, Russian oligarchs constituted one of Sonja Kohn’s/Bank Medici’s largest investors in the Madoff Ponzi scheme. Embarrassment from investing heavily with Mr. Madoff could explain wanting to disappear from public view. But another theory widely repeated by those who know Mrs. Kohn is that she may be afraid of some particularly displeased investors: Russian oligarchs whose money made up a chunk of the $2.1 billion that Bank Medici invested with Mr. Madoff. “With Russian oligarchs as clients,” said a Viennese banker who knew Mrs. Kohn and her husband socially, “she might have reason to be afraid.”
It was a view shared in interviews with Mrs. Kohn’s fellow bankers, former employees and other associates — from Vienna to London to Geneva to Monsey, N.Y.
Few of those who know her were willing to be quoted by name because they feared being linked to the scandal surrounding Mr. Madoff as well as the investigations into his alleged fraud. But several people with knowledge of her personal and professional dealings say she became concerned about retribution by Russian investors after Mr. Madoff’s arrest last month. (Russia’s richest men have been especially strapped as commodity prices and their stock market have collapsed.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/business/07medici.html?_r=3&ref=business
Another thing–If you are looking to refinance your home–you might never find a better time than now. We refinanced a 5.75% first and 7.5 % second into one first mortgage at 5.11% The total refinanced was over $300,000 and it cut our monthly payment by approximately $500.
My professor friend advised us to do that this week and we got it done in one day with Wells Fargo who only charged $495 in loan fees. Apparently that “untransparent” bail out money at least got to the banks like Wells Fargo who are loaning money like demons right now. For the last year and a half you couldn’t borrow a nickel from them if you had Manny’s assets and credit report. Who knows how long this “bubble” will last?
http://am570radio.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=AM570KLAC.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/LOSANGELES-CA/KLAC-AM/090106%20Fusion.mp3?CPROG=PCAST?CCOMRRMID&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=LOSANGELES-CA&NG_FORMAT=sports&NG_ID=klac1150am&OR_NEWSFORMAT=Sports&OWNER=&SERVER_NAME=www.am570radio.com&SITE_ID=727&STATION_ID=KLAC-AM&TRACK=
I hope this works guys. When talking about Manny potentially going to San Fran. These 2 radio guys put together this song. It is Barry Manilows “Mandy” changed to “OH MANNY”. It is hilarious! You may have to forward it to 15:08 into the clip. It is worth the listen!
As for the will he stay or will he go, I am tired of it. I am numb really untill it happens one way or the next.
Hoffman would be a good addition NOT great. I guess he is as good as Saito was last year. I don’t know if the numbers bear that out but neither one is a sure thing and neither is Broxton for that matter.
Later
Everybody’s got something to hide except for me an my monkey. Famous words from a one hit wonder band called The Beatles. Anyone in So Cal wanting to refi or buy a house, I can do your appraisal. Ask for Uncle Billy. I can only appraise up to $10 mil, so I can’t help the McCourts. Peace
I was more of a “why don’t we do it in the road guy” BRuss.
Did the song work for anyone? The Manny song.
Dromo–that was fantastic! Had me laughing and brought a little tear at the same time. It’s a classic! They should put it on U-Tube with some clips of a couple of Manny’s big hits for the Dogs.
You can keep stuff like that coming anytime! Thanks for the link and the listen!
The only thing Hoffman would be good for would be to mentor Broxton and teach him to throw the palm ball. BUt you’d do better to go get Gagne for that.
What if you sign him as a mentor and he tells Broxton to go screw himself?
“and he came and he played without taking, any of Frank’s money”
Classic!!!
Mucho gracias, DRomo!
Manny is coming back to LA, it just feels like it is going to happen in the next week or so.
I am done talking about Manny and Jones until something concrete happens.
I call bluff Mark.
I guarantee you’ll have something to say about the new article that dummy plaschke’s got up on the times….
How to Impress a Woman: compliment her, kiss her, caress her, love her, comfort her, protect her, hold her, spend money on her, wine & dine her, listen to her, stand by her, support her, go to the ends of the earth for her.
How to Impress a Man: show up naked, bring beer.
Manny, we are in front of you sort of naked…with $45 mil worth of “beer”.
What… it’s not enough. Manny, you are officially now: WoManny.
Now you will be treated like the bitch you are.
You threaten me with leaving to my most ancient arch-rival? OK. Go. What? You’re were only kidding? You want to know if my $45 mil offer is still good? Yeah, it’s still good – except it’s now $40 mil. and there now conditions you must meet to make ME happy.
#1 – I don’t care about your happiness, all I care about is winning. If you are also about winning, then play your ass off everyday and give me all you got for a full season. Then do it again next year and we’ll see about 2011.
#2 – You aren’t allowed to bitch to any of your teammates about how little you are being paid and how you aren’t motivated to play all the time or how disrespected you feel. The first sign of this and your remaining contract is voided. Suck it all up and remember we could’ve let you go to the Gay Area, but didn’t – you owe us.
And finally, if you can’t be 100% in agreement with these conditions or any other that I may think of later on, you will be sent packing and your contract null & void.
OK WoManny it’s your move now. You have until the end of the month – no rush, but the clock is ticking. I will expect a decision directly from you, if your pimp: Bor-Ass, is anywhere in the area, I will be greatly disappointed. You don’t want disappoint me – now do you WoManny?