Categorized | Mark Timmons

Who Is Lying? Raffy Says He Never Agreed To Contract With Braves

wren-furcalDylan Hernandez of the LA Times has the full scoop, but the key issue is that the Braves GM says this:

Wren claimed that Kinzer left him a voice message later that night and asked him to fax over a term sheet, which Wren said is customarily done only when an agreement has been reached.

Ned Colletti says the opposite.  Hernandez reported that Colletti, “based on his experience,  didn’t think that faxing a term sheet signifies that an agreement has been reached.”

Somebody is certainly wrong here.   If what Wren says is true, then Raffy and his agent (or at least his agent) is not acting on the “up and up.”  But if what Ned says is true, Wren is a crybaby which may be part of the reason the Braves aren’t attracting free agents!  From what I know about contracts, an offer sheet (term sheet) is necessary for a party to accept or reject an offer, especially if that offer is to be taken to a third party (in this case, Raffy).  It sounds like a case of sour grapes to me.  I welcome Raffy back, although he remains a big injury concern to me.  I think Hu is a valuable player for us now, as Raffy’s understudy. reports that an “unknown team has emerged in the Teixiera race.  It is reported that Borass says an unknown team (the Yankees deny it is them) has emerged as the leader in the sweepstakes with an 8 year/$195 million offer.  Now, it’s certainly possible that Borass is lying, but if he’s not, who could that team be?  Could the Dodgers be that team?

To me, if you want to pay a player $25 million a year, like some here have suggested we pay Manny, why not sign a guy who is about 10 years younger and has none of the “Manny Baggage?”  To me, that makes the most sense – it always has!   If we sign Tex, then Loney can go to LF or be traded in a package deal with Pierre, DeJesus and/or others for a power-hitting outfielder, 2B or starting pitcher.  Loney in LF?  He’d have to work there all spring, but he does have a really good arm, so that would be a plus.  Stay tuned!

How about this linup:

  1. Raffy  SS
  2. Ethier  RF
  3. Kemp  CF
  4. Tex  1B
  5. Loney  LF
  6. Martin  C
  7. Blake  3B
  8. DeWitt  2B

About Mark Timmons

When you see the invisible, you can do the impossible!

29 Responses to “Who Is Lying? Raffy Says He Never Agreed To Contract With Braves”

  1. mario says:

    Tex in a dodger line-up would be sick, but there’s no way cheapness bid almost 200 mil for a player..but I guess you never know

  2. Badger says:

    “Could the Dodgers be that team?”

    I got 200 push-ups that says “NO FREAKIN’ WAY” to that question.

    A term sheet sounds like just that. For agents to use that information to jack up another bid sounds like an unconscionable thing to do. You do that in real estate and you could lose your licence. But, these guys are greasy lawyers representing MLB players so, sounds like business as usual to me.

    I give my official okey dokey to signing both Sheets and Hudson. Just thought you guys would want to know.

  3. Bill Russell says:

    I am with Mr Badger on the Sheets / Hudson bandwagon. Teixeira would be a pipe dream but if McCourt did something like that, the words cheapskate would never be uttered in the same sentence with his name again. I just don’t see that one happening if anything it’s the Yanks running up the price on Boston.
    This is my pipe dream.

    Furcal ss
    Hudson 2nd
    Ethier Rf
    Manny Lf
    Loney 1b
    Kemp cf
    Martin c
    Blake 3b
    Sheets P



    Loretta, Nomar, D Young, Maza, Repko, Catcher Backup,

  4. mark says:

    Trust me,

    You left off two BIG NAMES:

    Troncoso, who will be a stud next year; and

    Hu (Maza?).

    I don’t know how well Hu will actually do next year, but I guarantee that every GM and Manager in baseball would take Hu over Maza.

    AJ Ellis will be the catcher.

  5. mark says:

    Oh, Nomar won’t play again.

  6. Bill Russell says:

    Sorry , If I’m having a pipe dream, Jones and DeWitt were packed together so that the Dodgers didn’t have to pay his salary. And we found a taker for Pierre and his contract.

    Just a Dream

  7. mark says:


  8. Bill Russell says:

    Hu did I leave off? Troncoso would replace Saito then.

  9. Bill Russell says:

    Hu would replace Maza

  10. lawdog says:

    You’ve got to play with the hand that’s dealt to you. Supplement your team with quality FAs. Fill holes. Don’t spend trillions of dollars for a player who plays a position where we already have quality. That forces you to trade somebody late in the market when most other teams have already made their own changes.

    Why in the world would we want Hudson? DeWitt is an up and coming star who basically leap frogged all the way from Class A to the bigs and stuck!

    Hudson is 31 and has been hurt most of his career–playing over 140 games just twice. One of those years he hit .268. He doesn’t steal bases. He’s just an abo e average second baseman who can’t play anywhere else.

    And why would you throw away a guy who’s hitting .341 in Winter Ball who’s been touted as one of our best prospects? Get rid of Hu in a package if you want to trade youth for production now. Hu is a bum. But he apparently has value.

    We won’t get more than a fig newton and a bottle of flat beer for either Juan or Jones–and that’s if we pay most of their salaries. Just trade the bums for whatever the market will bear and be done with it.

    Sign Manny. He’s aces in LA even if he’s a problem chile in Boston and Cleveland. Then sign SHeets who has the potential to be our Ace. If we can get 27 starts out of him (which is likely reviewing his history) we’ll have ace for all but about one month.

    Then we’re ready to go! :shock:

  11. lawdog says:

    that’s problem child–not problem chile (I haven’t moved to the South yet although we’re snowed in–have been for 4 days and we’re expecting 15 inches of snow in the next 24 hours with winds 70-90 miles per hour…)


  12. Badger says:

    I had some problem chile before. Burns coming and going.

    I have had pipe dreams before too, but I gave up the bong years ago.

    Hudson is a Gold Glove 2nd baseman whose average has improved every year and who cares if that’s the only position he plays? If he could give us 130 games I would take it – why? because we have Loretta to play the other 45. (I have us in the post-season). Hudson will have a better year than DeWitt. We need 8 guys on the field who will have better years.

    Can Hu see again? If so, he is still a viable option. He has hit fine everywhere he has been, right up til he didn’t, and his glove is gold.

    I like Bill’s team. He’s my g.m. for today. Mover, you’re up.

  13. Bill Russell says:

    Raffy’s eye’s looks like he’s been hitting the bong. :shock:

  14. Badger says:

    Dey got da black ganga down Dominican way mahn.

    It’s pretty good stuff.

    So I hear.

  15. lawdog says:

    Hudson hit something like .241 his first year in the bigs. And he had years in the minors honing the skills of his trade. DeWitt skipped the minors and had better stats his first year than Hudson’s first full year. In 119 games DeWitt hit .264 with an OBP of .344! (both hit 9 hrs but Hudson had over 140 games to do it.). Hudson played in more games but hit .268 with an OBP of .328. :shock:

    We’re fine at second base. You don’t change too m any players or you’ll lose continuity how much would it cost us to sign him? Either way we’re talking about the 7th or 8th place in the lineup once we sign Manny.

    I don’t think showing an offer sheet from one club to another club violates any ethical rules. Maybe I’m wrong, but everybody got their panties in a bunch when Malone bid against himself when signing Brown. How in the hell can you tell if you’re bidding against yourself if the agent can’t show you the high bid offer sheet? Are supposed to take the agent’s word on it? That’s a good way to get yourself fired! That’s exactly what Malone did with Borass! :roll:

  16. lawdog says:

    Go get Manny and Sheets to make us complete!

    Go get ‘um Ned and you too Fred! :eek:

  17. lawdog says:

    The bong brings relief for lower back pain.

  18. Badger says:

    What do you do ldawg, sleep on it? Fill it with hot water and roll it up and down the lower back?

    Bowl season starts today. I am in a pool. So far, I am 0-1. It’s a long, long season though.

  19. lawdog says:

    The staute of frauds requires that a contract of this type be in writing. The Braves can complain about “having a deal in principle” with Furcal’s agent through conversations, but until Raffy or his agent on Raffy’s behalf sign a piece of paper (like the faxed offer sheet) there is no deal in force and effect. If Raffy or his agent had evern initialed it they would be bound–but without some sort of written acknowledgment indicating a willingness to be bound there is no contract.

    What’s the difference between telling the other team (Dogs) what the high offer is or showing them an actual offer sheet? I don’t see any moral or ethical difference. Yet the agents are constantly telling other teams what the high offer is. If a team like the Dodgers doesn’t trust the agent (maybe because they bid against themselves before by relying on a lying scumbag’s word in the Kevin Brown case) what’s wrong with verifying the high offer by showing them the actual sheet?

    This is a tempest in a teapot. Nobody has done anything wrong. The Braves are just crybabies.

    Probably what happened is Kisner told them “what it would take” to sign Raffy. They agreed and he said to send the offer sheet. THey’re probably pissed because they agreed to a final suggestion for an offer only to have the agent take it and use it to leverage more cash out of LA. They got jobbed like we got jobbed in the Beltre signing. Raffy’s agent should have gone back one more time and let them try to out bid the Dogs–but that probably would have just pissed them off further.

  20. lawdog says:

    Well that’s one way to do it m y friend. I could suggest another–but that would be aiding and abetting a criminal offense so I’b best pass! :eek:

  21. Bill Russell says:

    Bargining Practices
    What it does is play favorites to the Dodgers without having the Dodgers negotiate for Raffy’s services until the very end. The Dodgers could just lay back and decide if they want to beat the best offer that the player gets with no worries of losing them. The Dodgers can simily decide if the price is too high or match the offer. If these agents play favorites like this, why would other teams want to get involved with future negotations knowing that their offers are not on level ground? It’s not a fair bargining practice and will effect these agents in the long haul. It will cause other teams not to bid on certain players knowing they will give the big market teams the final chance to bid.

    And it could backfire by,
    What if, other teams felt that Raffy was going to give the Dodgers the last chance to bid in the future and decided not to bid? Then Raffy would be stuck with whatever the Dodgers decided to offer. Probably wouldn’t happen with Raffy but it could happen with other players.

    I know that Raffy and his agent didn’t sign the offer sheet to make it binding, but it sounds to me like Kinzer got what Raffy said it would take to sign with the Braves and then turned around and let the Dodgers match it. If I were a Braves fan I would be pissed. But since I’m not I will enjoy having Raffy back.

    It’s the players decision on where they want to play and how much money they can make, but in my opinion, No team should ever be able to view the another teams writen offer sheets before making their final offer. I know Ned said he didn’t but we all know that he did. That was the purpose of Kinzer having the Braves fax it over.

    If I were a GM, I wouldn’t fax over an offer sheet, I would fly it over to be signed if I hit their magic number and was told “that’s what it will take”. :shock:

    Again, just my opinion

  22. lawdog says:

    Whether Kinzer shows Ned a fax sheet or tells him what’s on the fax sheet–what’s the friggen’ difference? If you can trust the agent, you don’t need to see no stinkin’ faxes. If your dealing with an agent you don’t know, trusting him might well cost you your job.

    In football, they have restgricted free agents. Free agents who go out and get tendered offers which then can be matched by the club who had the rights to the player. Basketball has the same thing. In baseball, ewverybody is theoretically supposed to know what the present price is for the player so there won’t be any “bidding against yourself”.

    You might lose your license in real estate for this kind of tactic–but as a matter of law, the client who is screaming about the tactic cannot enforce an oral contract unless the matter involves a real minor sum. It’s been years since law school so I’m not sure about the amount. $500.00 is ringing a bell–but if it’s more, it’s not much more. Maybe a grand. And all contracts involving real estate must be in writing to be enforcable. This is comon law in all the states and England–from where it was hatched centuries ago. ;-)

    But I ask you Bruss, how in the world can you avoid bidding against yourself if your not able to review the high offer IN WRITING?

    If you can’t, you’re at the mercy of the Borasses of the game and you can bet you’ll bid against yourself at some point and when the deal turns sour like it did with Brown –it’ll be your ass as a GM. :shock:

  23. Badger says:

    Yeah, just fax over your Master Card number and I promise I won’t do anything nefarious with it.

    Again, these are lawyers and MLB players. They are all dogs with fleas. You expect honorable behavior? Get real Braves fans.

    And now, let’s get ready to be Borassed.

  24. lawdog says:

    Tony Jackson on Kuroda’s arm troubles:

    “By all appearances, it’s only precautionary, and his status for the Dodgers isn’t in jeopardy. I’m looking into it, but the fact his arm isn’t quite 100 percent isn’t news. We have known that for a while. More when I know more.”

  25. lawdog says:

    From the Daily News:

    “Juan Rivera agreed to a three-year, $12.75 million deal with the Angels on Friday. It’s a move that complicates an already crowded outfield, but allows the team to retain one of its best power hitters.

    Rivera, 30, hit .246 with 12 home runs and 45 RBI last season in 89 games for the Angels. He played sparingly to begin the season but won a starting outfield spot over Gary Matthews Jr. in July.”

    Angels are going DOWN! This guy is a stiff! Does this mean they are officially out of the Manny hunt?

  26. Badger says:

    Rivera is a who cares signing. The Angels are players and this just means they may have other plans with the real money.

    They are still in the Manny hunt and will be until he signs someplace.

  27. mark says:

    Rumor has it that Manny thinks the Yanks will pony up for at least 3 years. If he wants to be there, so be it!

    We should just move on.

  28. Badger says:

    “Rumor has it that Manny thinks” …….

    it’s just a rumor.


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